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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 9478551" data-attributes="member: 6750235">Because if those thp are lost before the Glamour Bard has a chance to renew the thp that cannot be done.  Cutting Words can be done in response to a large threat while preemptively granting thp can be whittled away through minor threats.This also gets back to the Cutting Words preventing damage stacks with any source of thp while Mantle of Inspiration cannot.It's also not a 2:1 ration because Cutting Words against an AoE protects everyone.  Mantle of Inspiration protects against a scale of targets with a minimum of 1 that goes up to 5 and typically starts with 3 targets.  Which 3 or 4 or 5 targets did the Glamour bard select and which did they not?  The party is also mounts, animal companions, familiars, and possibly some retainers and NPC's in the area.The time is "on another person's turn".  Using Mantle of Inspiration first thing in the morning wastes the movement granting portion of the effect, but a person can get cheesy after Font of Inspiration, rest for the night, spam Mantle of Inspiration, rest for an hour, then move out.That still doesn't change that any other source of thp also works and Cutting Words works along with thp to prevent more damage.I think you missed the point there.  Cutting Words works with other sources of thp.  Mantle of Inspiration causes someone to replace those thp.  IE you "already won" when Cutting Words causes the party to not take enough damage to lose the Inspiring Leader thp by preventing that damage in conjunction with a source of thp that give more thp and to more targets.Yes, like Cutting Words is a useful alternative use.Jack of All Trades gives a +1 bonus from levels 1 through 8, a +2 bonus from levels 9 through 16, and a +3 bonus from levels 17 through 20.  The entire ability is just a small skill bump.  Proficiency is a small skill bump on top of a small skill bump to better hit DC's.  It's +2 from levels 1 through 4, +3 from levels 5 through 8, +4 from levels 9 thorugh 12, +5 from levels 13 through 16, and +6 from level 17 up.  Here's what that looks like in side by side comparison...<table style='width: 100%'><tr><td>Level </td><td>JoaT </td><td>Prof </td><td>Diff </td></tr><tr><td>3 </td><td>1 </td><td>2 </td><td>1 </td></tr><tr><td>4 </td><td>1 </td><td>2 </td><td>1 </td></tr><tr><td>5 </td><td>1 </td><td>3 </td><td>2 </td></tr><tr><td>6 </td><td>1 </td><td>3 </td><td>2 </td></tr><tr><td>7 </td><td>1 </td><td>3 </td><td>2 </td></tr><tr><td>8 </td><td>1 </td><td>3 </td><td>2 </td></tr><tr><td>9 </td><td>2 </td><td>4 </td><td>2 </td></tr><tr><td>10 </td><td>2 </td><td>4 </td><td>2 </td></tr><tr><td>11 </td><td>2 </td><td>4 </td><td>2 </td></tr><tr><td>12 </td><td>2 </td><td>4 </td><td>2 </td></tr><tr><td>13 </td><td>2 </td><td>5 </td><td>3 </td></tr><tr><td>14 </td><td>2 </td><td>5 </td><td>3 </td></tr><tr><td>15 </td><td>2 </td><td>5 </td><td>3 </td></tr><tr><td>16 </td><td>2 </td><td>5 </td><td>3 </td></tr><tr><td>17 </td><td>3 </td><td>6 </td><td>3 </td></tr><tr><td>18 </td><td>3 </td><td>6 </td><td>3 </td></tr><tr><td>19 </td><td>3 </td><td>6 </td><td>3 </td></tr><tr><td>20 </td><td>3 </td><td>6 </td><td>3 </td></tr></table>The small difference in proficiency is only 1 point for 2 early levels.  After that it's a reasonable improvement.  We cannot consider Jack of all Trades a useful bonus and not consider proficiency, which is always the same or better, not a useful bonus.  +3 is 3x better than +1.  ;-)We just agreed that alternative uses are useful.It's not just an alternative for spell slots.  It's extra spells prepared from a large list and control over which spell levels.  And I seem to have to repeat this a lot for some reason, but Magical Discoveries......allows for cantrips as well, but Magical Secrets......requires the spells be from the prepared spells.  Cantrips are not prepared spells as shown in the class progression.[ATTACH=full]382174[/ATTACH]They are just known per the description in the class.  Magical Discoveries adds spell options and we just agreed alternative uses are useful, can can add cantrips as well, which do not cost that spell slot resource.  Magical Secrets cannot add to spells prepped and cannot add to cantrips.  This gives Magical Discoveries some clear advantages over Magical Secrets and earlier.The other "alternate BI dice use" transforms failed ability checks or attack rolls into successes.  How is that not good?  It's almost as good as the Rogue capstone (Stroke of Luck) but can be done a lot earlier and a lot more often.You've already pointed out that useful alternatives are useful so why wouldn't I consider this useful alternative useful on a Lore bard?Just turning misses into hits with cantrips is useful.  16 damage is much better than 0 damage.  Bards aren't great at damage but that accuracy the number of times it can be used makes a difference compared to a Glamour bard.  Turning a failed stealth check into a successful stealth check while using Invisibility seems hella useful.Peerless Skill is lit playing to the skills aspect of a bard.Not really.  If you use a tool (musical instrument) to perform and use the perform skill you have advantage on the check anyway.  Dance bards just don't need the instrument to do it.  That's worse than extra skill proficiency being "a small bump" by far.At 6th level when Dance bards get that we're comparing it to Magical Discoveries, Extra Attack (with cantrips as an attack), and Mantle of Majesty.At the level Tandem Footwork becomes available Glamour and Lore bards are gaining alternative spell slot uses and Valor is gaining a combat bonus that's not on either resource.Tandem Footwork is good, but I don't agree that it's the best in every situation.  It's pretty limited to combat, and it will use up a lot of those BI dice.Yup, a 16 AC instead of a 15 AC.A very occasional attack.  Dance is using those BI dice on Tandem Footwork, which doesn't generate that attack.Useful, but the 5' range tends to minimize the size of that group.Dance bards have uses, for sure.  Those are just different from other colleges.They have the best AC options until much higher levels.  The extra attack isn't that occasional.  It's pretty much every time they cast a spell at 14th level.  At 6th level if they want to cast a cantrip they might as well attack and cast a cantrip.  At 14th level if they cast a spell they get a bonus action attack.That's a lot more attacks that the Dance bard will ever see let alone the Glamour or Lore bards.I like Peerless Skill better than Unbreakable Majesty.  More uses in and out of combat with more control over how often it can be used.It's what type of bard I'm making that suits them.  I like the Dance bard on a caster for the evasive / defensive options and initiative is very useful on a caster.If I am making a Glamour bard it's still a caster bard but at that point I know I'm going with a traditional trope of the enchanter / illusionist as the style of caster.If I am making a Valor bard that character will be front line support casting spells and grabbing some attacks in the process.If I am make a Lore bard I'm leaning into the skill interactions.  Bards are a "skilled class" and I think that is the college that leans into the skills concept the best.  Like I argued, I think Peerless Skill is something players are sleeping on in the way it works.  ;-)</blockquote>

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