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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Alex319" data-source="post: 4722785" data-attributes="member: 45678">I'm not really sure I understand what the problem is here.First of all, is your problem with the bull rush action in particular or all forced movement? Its hard to tell because you first start talking about bull rushes but then start talking about thunderwave, and you refer to thunderwave-induced forced movement as part of the "bullrush rule", which it isn't - bullrush is just one type of action that can cause forced movement; thunderwave is another.In any case, the "consequence" of a bull rush is that the target is pushed one square. This can, of course, result in lots of other different things depending on the tactical situation, like damage from hazardous terrain, certain position-dependent abilities, etc.In your example of a wall with pikes, that would just be another type of "hazardous terrain," that if a player is pushed into, he suffers damage. And if you're designing an encounter, then you can put in terrain with whatever effects you want. There is no need for a houserule to modify bullrush or forced movement in general; that would just be something specific to that scenario. The general rules for forced movement govern how a combatant can be moved into the spikes - the specific rules associated with the spiked wall would govern what happens when a character is moved there.It seems like what you want is another type of terrain:Dangerous Wall: This is like an ordinary wall in that it cannot be entered and blocks line of sight and line of effect. However, it has the property that if a character would be pushed into the wall by forced movement, he suffers X damage and ends his forced movement in the last legal square he occupied.---As for pushing a player onto the Flaming Sphere, remember that you can already push them adjacent to the flaming sphere and make them take damage that way. You could certainly make a houserule that applies the "dangerous wall" effect above to the square that the flaming sphere occupies. However, be warned that this will make Flaming Sphere, which is already widely recognized as the most powerful Wizard daily, to be significantly more powerful. Many classes have at-will forced movement effects, and this would essentially make all these forced movement effects do 2d6+INT damage in addition to the forced movement (if they can push him onto the flaming sphere) which is very powerful. If you do decide to do it this way, you might want to tone down the damage on Flaming Sphere across-the-board to compensate.As for the save roll to avoid forced movement onto dangerous terrain, how is it a "balance break?" Do you think it makes forced movement not powerful enough? What it's supposed to represent is "catching yourself" as you're being pushed over. As for Bigby's Icy Grasp, remember that if you try to push him over and he succeeds on the save, he is not automatically freed - you can still try again next turn.In any case, you can certainly add the following houserule:If you are force-moved over a pit or into dangerous terrain due to movement from a grab, you do not get a save.----Does this answer your questions? You mention that the problem is that the rules "don't give you the right to do" certain things that you want to do. Can you give an example of something the rules don't give you the right to do that you want to do?</blockquote>

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