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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Matrix Sorcica" data-source="post: 434466" data-attributes="member: 3547">Yeah, I know that the CR math is a bit 'contrived' and rather badly explained as well!Here goes:Gelugon : 12HD, CR 13It is now considered a 7HD base monster, which means that its 12HD is a +1 CR increase from 7HD. With +4 more added in from the template, it becomes (13+1+4) CR 18. At 14 HD it becomes CR19, at 17HD it's CR 20 and at 21 HD it will be CR 21. after 21 HD, it uses the Gelugons normal hit die range for determining CR, so at 24 it will have double it's base HD for a further +2 CR or CR 23. At 30 HD it'll be CR 24.I'm aware that at 21 HD it will have the spell casting of a 20th level sorcerer and 'only' be CR 21. I don't think this is a major problem, since a high-level party can destroy it before it gets to cast too many of its spells. (Compared to celestials and titans, it's no problem at all .)Ultroloth: 13HD, CR 16It is now considered a 7HD base monster, which means that its 13HD is a +1 CR increase from 7HD. With +4 more added in from the template, it becomes (16+1+4) CR 21. At 14 HD it becomes CR22, at 17HD it's CR 23 and at 21 HD it will be CR 24. after 21 HD, it uses the Ultroloth's normal hit die range for determining CR, so at 26 it will have double it's base HD for a further +2 CR or CR 26. At 32 HD it'll be CR 25. (and would rival the Arch-Fiends from BoVD, I think).As for the Spell Immunity, I originally designed this template for succubi only (see my 'Noble Succubi' thread on this board) and it was meant to be a 'Rakshasa add-on' for a succubus. They have so lousy a SR, that it's useless. It's a CR 9 creature, a level 9 spellcaster has a 90% chance of overcoming the SR...But when I made it into a more general template, the spell-immunity might not have been the best idea. Maybe X+CR is better. But maybe CR becomes too high, then? I would say that SR should be CR+12 (at least, maybe +13?) If we use +12, the succubi gets SR 24, The Gelugon SR 37 and the Ultroloth SR 37.Hmm...it actually makes the creatures much more powerful against lower level parties, while allowing high-level parties to conserve their 9th level spells. I like it!Thanks for your comments, feel very welcome to add more.Sorcica</blockquote>

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