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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MerakSpielman" data-source="post: 363446" data-attributes="member: 7464">A brief essay:   There are a lot of potential problems with illusions that cannot be adiquately covered by the rules. Let's list a few that have come up and a few that havn't:1) Can you give a normally illuminated room the illusion of being in shadow or darkness?2) Can you use illusury light to illuminate a truly dark room?3) Can an illusion REFLECT light?OK, all official rulings aside, this is how I would adjucate this IMC.1) Yes, you can try this. It will probably be rather obvious that is is an illusion, since we are presuming the room would otherwise be illuminated and must therefore have windows, torches, openings to other, illuminated spaces, etc... It would take a pretty dumb adventurer to not wonder why it's day outside that window but dark in the room.  I would give all characters entering the room an automatic saving throw to resist believing in the illusion. The DC would be at a -4 penalty. If the characters are carrying their own light sources into the room they would instantly dispel the illusion. Darkvision would not function because it requires "real" darkness, so a character with darkvision would automatically make their saving throw. Shadowdancers would be unable to enter the shadows in the room and automatically disbelieve when they tried. Anybody attempting to Hide would automatically disbelieve. All in all, the illusion would be rather worthless.2) No, but you can create the illusion of light and BELIEVE the room is illuminated. Say you create the illusion of a torch to try to see the contents of a room that is truly and completely dark. Only what your mind already knows or suspects is there will be illuminated - you will believe you can see them. The human mind can fill in a lot of gaps with very little input, such as the relative size of the room by unconscious sound/echo recognition, or the fact that the walls will probably look like the walls in the last room or the corridor. All details will be vague or absent. If the character has been in the room before, they will see it as they remember it. If there is anything in the room that they did not see there before, they cannot see it. If they interact with such a thing (trip over it, etc...), the illusion will be dispelled.  If, for instance, the character had left a letter or map there, they would be able to read it if they have read it before. If somebody had modified or added to it, the changes would not be visible. Any illusionist would know that it would be more effective to simply cast a light spell or light a torch if they really wanted to see.   The illusury bonfire: The room would be illuminated as above. The inconsistancies of sight and actuality will probably tip the characters off about the nature of the bonfire quickly (-4 to DC again)   Illusion of somebody holding a glowing weapon: If the area is otherwise illuminated, there is no problem. If the weapon is the only source of light, it is limited as above.   Mirror Image of you holding a torch: The light shed by the illusury torches is not real and subject to the above limitations, but since the real you is holding a real torch, the room will be illuminated properly, as by the number of torches seen. Using the above framework, an observer could attempt to determine which torches (and therefore images) were false, but the constantly shifiting nature of the spell would make them lose track again very quickly.3) say you create the illusion of a knight is shining armor. A character approaches with a torch in an otherwise dark room. Is the torchlight reflected by the shiny armor, making those cool reflective spats of light on the walls? I would say yes, until and unless the illusion was disbelieved or dispelled. These bits of light would illuminate the room only as detailed in the above examples, but since there is a torch in the room most of it will be properly visable anyway. If the knight couldn't reflect light differently depending on the kind of light he's standing in, then any illusion (such as the famous illusions of Big Monsters) wouldn't look right - they would look the same regardless of being in torchlight or shadow, sunlight or under venetian blinds. If light and shadow can appear to interact with the skin of a monster (down to and including the monster casting a shadow) than light will also appear to reflect.   What if you were to create the illusion of a mirror in a normal, well-lit room? I think you would see yourself in the mirror. You rogue trying to sneak up on you and backstab you would see himself and you in the mirror (and assume you saw him). You would not, however, see the rogue. Nor would you see the spot of gravy on your chin if you didn't already know it was there. P.S. would you believe I finally registered on this board just so I could respond on  this topic? Maybe it's also because the Wizards boards were down and I craved the ability to say something...</blockquote>

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