Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 363577" data-attributes="member: 2011">Wow MS. I am blowing off one rule about illusions, but you are totally blowing off the rules for illusions. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Why should it be obvious? Why couldn't it be some form of "Shadow Magic" (not a Shadow illusion) that lowers the illumination of the room? It might be obvious that magic is at work, but the type of magic shouldn't necessarily be so clear cut. "The presence of light does not spoil darkvision."Darkvision does not require real darkness.I see no reason why darkvision would get an advantage here over normal sight since both would see a dark room. The illusion would not attempt to hinder the darkvision. Think of darkvision as the lights are always on, even if they are off, but only in black and white. That character would see the dark shadows of the illusion and wonder why they are there, just like the character with normal sight would see them and wonder why they are there. This seems reasonable since it is a special ability that uses actual shadows.The act of hiding should be like any other interaction with the illusion. It gets a saving throw, but it should not be an automatic save. You hide in a dark area, it looks dark to you.I think it depends. If I create the illusion of an object "sucking the light out of the room", characters should instantly think it is a magical effect, but not necessarily know automatically that it is an illusion.This comes down to whether illusions are allowed to emit real light or not. In the first printing of the PHB, they were allowed to do that (e.g. Dancing Lights).And, you have to distinguish between Figments/Glamers and Phantasms when you discuss illusions. Here, you are pulling mind affecting elements into an illusion which is the domain of Phantasms, not Figments or Glamers. Why would you even attempt to create a Phantasm to fool your own mind into thinking a room was lit? You wouldn't. Instead, you would either use a Figment to create a fake lit torch, or you would use a Glamer on a torch or dagger to make it look like a lit torch.If you are allowed to create the illusion of a lit torch, it should light up the room normally.If you are not allowed to create the illusion of a lit torch because you as DM rule that illusions cannot emit light, then the spell should fail.Ah, but what about a Mirror Image in a dark room with the Wizard is holding a candle? Candles have low illumination and in fact, the images might leave the illumination area of the candle unless the images too emitted light. This would be counter to the Mirror Image spells indication that you cannot tell the difference between the images.Now here, this does not make sense.Why would the Rogue see the front of your face if you cannot see his face?Again, you are attributing mental capabilities to illusions that they just do not have."Those who perceive the figment perceive the same thing, not their own slightly different versions of the figment. (It is not a personalized mental impression.)"I think you are having a real tough time understanding that Figments and Glamers (the vast majority of illusions) have absolutely no mental capabilities in and of themselves at all. They are purely visual in nature.Let me give you a real world example. If you are on a rafting or a hiking trip and the guide points out a rock formation that looks like a horse, you tend to get two possibilities:1) A person sees it and it does look like a horse (or he can at least understand how someone else sees a horse, but it might not really look like a horse to him).2) A person cannot see a horse in that rock formation, even though he keeps staring at it.Why is it that some people see the horse and some do not? It's due to pattern recognition. Or, one person looks at a cloud and sees a face and another sees a house.That's the easiest way to adjudicate illusions (i.e. Figments and Glamers). Everyone sees the exact same thing, but some people notice a problem with it (i.e. make their will save) and notice that it is not quite right, and other people do not notice anything (i.e. fail their will save). To those who fail the save, the illusion looks like the intent of the creator of the illusion.Think of a painting. A painting can look somewhat real, but when compared to a real photograph, it is obvious that it is a painting. Think of Figments and Glamers as very good paintings that the magic puts into space.And, the idea of illusions in the game at all can probably be derived (through literature) from the concept of optical illusions in real life.PS. On the mirror example, low levels illusions could probably not do this since the illusion has to change to correspond to triggers in the room. In fact, I think even powerful illusions would be hard to pull off a mirror since a caster controlling the change wouldn't be able to make it seem like angle x for one character, angle y for another character, etc. The image would always be the same for all characters, regardless of their angle to the mirror. I think you would have to create a brand new very high level Figment spell to create the illusion of a mirror that actually works.</blockquote>

Verification