Dark*Matter: d20M vs M&M

[shadowlight]

So I'm planning on starting up a new campaign that is strongly based on Dark*Matter. I've really been going back and forth on whether to run it using d20 Modern or Mutants & Masterminds (low level) rules.

For some reason d20 M seems more gritty, but I don't like having lots of hit points at higher levels.

M&M is a lot more cinematic, and I think the supers abilities could accurately model the D*M-style FX.

Any thoughts?

 

[Desdichado]

You could always ditch experience and control advancement to avoid reaching the higher levels altogether. Realistically, how likely is it we'll play this for a really long stretch anyway?

 

[Thomas Hobbes]

Well, I dinnae know much about the original Dark*Matter or M&M, but I am in a Dark*matter PbP using the d20 modern rules. I'll point the GM in this direction and see if he has any advice.

Also of possible interest to you is the web enhancement to the Menace Manual, which are rules for converting alternity monsters to d20.

Link: http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20modern/article/20031007a

 

[Biohazard]

So I'm planning on starting up a new campaign that is strongly based on Dark*Matter. I've really been going back and forth on whether to run it using d20 Modern or Mutants & Masterminds (low level) rules.

For some reason d20 M seems more gritty, but I don't like having lots of hit points at higher levels.

M&M is a lot more cinematic, and I think the supers abilities could accurately model the D*M-style FX.

Any thoughts?

IMHO, Dark*Matter is a more of a gritty setting than M&M is geared to handle. Dark*Matter FX is probably more accurately represented through d20 Modern and Urbana Arcana FX than M&M's supers abilities as well.

On the subject of hit points, and not wanting lots of hit points at higher levels, keep in mind the d20 Modern Massive Damage Threshold; it doesn't matter how high your hp are, if you take a single hit that equals or exceeds your CON score, you roll against DC 15 Fortitude to avoid being *instantly* reduced to -1 hp. So even a character with 80 or 90 hp can't laugh off a shotgun blast. As I've always said, if PCs having high HPs bothers the GM, all he has to do is up the challenges the PCs face. Hit points are all relative; if you're fighting a mosquito, having 3 hp is pretty powerful; if you're facing a dragon, having 100 hp isn't very much.

My vote would definitely be d20 Modern. M&M would work well if you wanted to do a pulp heroes-cinematic style game; but even then, I'd still vote for d20 Modern.

Honestly, I think M&M is really only useful for what it was designed for: super-hero games.

 

[Dismas]

I would go with d20M-ish. d20 CoC is probably closer.

Here is the way I would run d20M Dark*Matter

• Character Generation as per Ordinaries section
• MDT 10
• Incantations from UA for 'good' magic
• d20 CoC spells (attribute damage) for 'bad' flashy magic
• d20 CoC Psionics

The reason not to go fully d20CoC is that d20m characters can end up with lower BAB and saves than d20CoC characters.

 

[shadowlight]

Dark*Matter FX is probably more accurately represented through d20 Modern and Urbana Arcana FX than M&M's supers abilities as well.

I don't know. The d20 Modern FX rules feel so much like D&D that it's hard to think of them as anything else. You never see D*M characters preparing their spells beforehand and then losing them once their cast...

Also, the level-dependent nature of spell progression doesn't feel right. IMO, A D*M character shouldn't necessarily have to know all these low level spells in order to ever cast a higher-level one...

I do think that the Call of Cthulhu magic system might be more on par (with less of an emphasis on sanity)

The supers rules in M&M give you simple rules for FX that can model pretty much any ability/power you could imagine. For example, a psychic, a mage, or an advanced alien technology could all use the same rules to model a force field power or an energy blast.

Also, a psychic, for example, wouldn't have to know a bunch of zero level "spells" (which feels really D&Dish) in order to use his telekinesis ability.

On the subject of hit points, and not wanting lots of hit points at higher levels, keep in mind the d20 Modern Massive Damage Threshold...

This is a good point. For a grittier setting, you could always lower the MDT as well.

My vote would definitely be d20 Modern. M&M would work well if you wanted to do a pulp heroes-cinematic style game; but even then, I'd still vote for d20 Modern.

Yeah, I think that M&M is much more cinematic... and that's a bit of the point of D*M... the stories about conspiracies, supernatural weirdness, etc.

Honestly, I think M&M is really only useful for what it was designed for: super-hero games.

I totally disagree here (I've used it for some really fun non-supers games), but that's another discussion for another thread.


Thanks for the feedback... Don't get me wrong, I really like d20 M. I'm just not sure if it's right for D*M...

 

[shadowlight]

I would go with d20M-ish. d20 CoC is probably closer.

Here is the way I would run d20M Dark*Matter

• Character Generation as per Ordinaries section
• MDT 10
• Incantations from UA for 'good' magic
• d20 CoC spells (attribute damage) for 'bad' flashy magic
• d20 CoC Psionics

The reason not to go fully d20CoC is that d20m characters can end up with lower BAB and saves than d20CoC characters.

I really like this. I had totally forgotten about UA's incantations..... hmmm.... I wonder if you could combine them with some of the spell component modifiers in Arcana Unearthed... hmmm....

I also like the idea of combining the incantations with COC spells and psi... this seems more in line with the D*M feel of magic.

Maybe MDT of 10 modified by you Con modifier...

Thanks for the post. This really has me thinking...

 

[Desdichado]

I was pretty happy with the concept of d20 Modern classes with CoC Sanity, magic and psychic powers slapped on top of it. It's the feel of the game and the constant Sanity checks that make CoC a bit over the top that way. Toning down the occurance of Sanity checks makes it (IMO) a useful mechanic that adds a lot of the right flavor without going too far to the point that Dark*Matter characters would actually expect to go insane during the course of a campaign.

Having them in there serves as a nice deterrent against gratuitous magic and/or psychic use, though.

 

[Ranger REG]

I don't know. The d20 Modern FX rules feel so much like D&D that it's hard to think of them as anything else. You never see D*M characters preparing their spells beforehand and then losing them once their cast...

Then don't use the magic FX in the core rulebook. Try looking or creating an alternative magic system.

Thanks for the feedback... Don't get me wrong, I really like d20 M. I'm just not sure if it's right for D*M...

Sounds like a challenge for Dark*Matter author JD Wiker.

 

[shadowlight]

Then don't use the magic FX in the core rulebook. Try looking or creating an alternative magic system.

Very good point. Any recommendations? I like the idea of incantations and CoC magic. I've also heard good things about Elements of Magic but I don't know how appropriate it would be for D*M

Sounds like a challenge for Dark*Matter author JD Wiker.

Yes! I'd like one supersized d20 Dark Matter campaign setting/game system and a large order of fries!!