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Message: <blockquote data-quote="woodelf" data-source="post: 1059489" data-attributes="member: 10201">Well, i rather question the claims of balance for the core rules, but that's another matter.  As for DS classes: what about something like [making this up as i go] giving defilers free metamagic feats as bonus feats/class abilities, and giving item-creation feats as bonuses to preservers?  So defilers get more power in the short-run, but preservers get more in the long-run--that should mimic the in-world dynamic of short-term gains vs. long-term costs.That's a good point.  but i don't think it makes it impossible to have different power levels, at least in certain situations.I didn't mean to suggest that there's no room for change. Certainly, preservers should be allowed to defile, if they want to.  And defilers should be able to atone.  But i don't like the idea of being able to pick, willy-nilly, spell-by-spell, whether to defile or preserve. I think there should be stronger mechanical limits, or at least incentives, to mostly stick to one path.  The defiler shouldn't be able to cast as a preserver just 'cause there's witnesses around right now and he doesn't want to give himself away.  At best, it should take some real effort (a feat, maybe a Wis check, maybe only X times/day).  Maybe it just shouldn't be possible.  Likewise, there should be more preventing the preserver from defiling than just cultural disapproval (as you say above).  There should be a very real (potential) cost to casting a few defiling spells.  Just saying "ok, guys, everybody get more than 50' away from me, i'm gonna need the extra boost from defiling to stop this guy" is too easy.</blockquote>

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