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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Marandahir" data-source="post: 8486929" data-attributes="member: 6803643">What is Divine Magic, What is Divine Magic in a world without Gods, what is a Divine Domain, what is a Sacred Oath? These are big picture questions that Athas usually doesn't answer because Divine Magic just doesn't exist anymore (at least outside of Elemental priests are are more like Druids). Templars might USE the structural chassis of a Cleric or Paladin class but are fundamentally a different thing. I think the baseline assumptions of the Warlock in the PHB lines up more with what a Templar is and what a Templar does than the baseline assumptions of the Cleric and/or Paladin, even though there are subclasses of Cleric and Paladin that narratively line up with what a Templar DOES.This is sort of like the idea that there are Shifters, Circle of the Moon Druids, Path of the Beast Barbarians, and Werefolk (whose curse means taking the character away from the PC and turning them into an NPC). All of these touch on the same narrative concept and COULD be used to tell the story of a Werewolf, but depending on the story we're trying to tell, different ways of doing it are more or less useful. I wouldn't want to use the Werewolf monster stat for the situation if a PC wanted to be a Wereperson. But if they wanted to change full-on into a wolf, and not just gain wolflike abilities when they shift, I also wouldn't use the Shifter lineage from Eberron. The context matters. I'd argue that the Warlock chassis is a MORE useful way of the telling the story of the Templar, even if the Paladin and Cleric classes also touch on the same concepts.</blockquote>

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