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<blockquote data-quote="gorice" data-source="post: 8948343" data-attributes="member: 7032863"><p>Interesting thread. I've got a few disordered thoughts about this.</p><ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">I think we can take it as given that WotC will not touch this with a 10 foot pole. I also don't think that we should be looking to WotC to provide... Well, anything, honestly.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Whether and how things like slavery should be included in <em>play</em>, and their inclusion in <em>game publications</em>, are two different questions, as others have made clear.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Slavery in particular is a troublesome issue due to the American context. On the one hand, this is another frustrating expression of American cultural imperialism; on the other, there are good reasons (given by [USER=48965]@Imaro[/USER] ) to leave it out, or at least tread carefully.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">For me, what is most offensive is the whole idea that evil only originates in villains, and that no-one should play characters living in a society that does evil things. We live in a world in which we depend upon, and are complicit in, ecological destruction and economic exploitation, up to and including slavery. The strength of a setting like Dark Sun (with or without slavery) is that it puts these issues front and centre and asks the players 'how will your character deal with this, given the danger of resisting and the difficulty of mere survival?'.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Speaking of which, your're not being moral if you're doing it for a reward. D&D is still premised on a worldview in which adventurers can and should murder 'legitimate' targets, and be rewarded for it by the powers that be. A depiction of a violent and hierarchical society that is nonetheless somehow idyllic if not for external enemies who are inherently evil and must be murdered is <em>actually</em> 'problematic', in the way that we used to use the word.</li> </ol></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="gorice, post: 8948343, member: 7032863"] Interesting thread. I've got a few disordered thoughts about this. [LIST=1] [*]I think we can take it as given that WotC will not touch this with a 10 foot pole. I also don't think that we should be looking to WotC to provide... Well, anything, honestly. [*]Whether and how things like slavery should be included in [I]play[/I], and their inclusion in [I]game publications[/I], are two different questions, as others have made clear. [*]Slavery in particular is a troublesome issue due to the American context. On the one hand, this is another frustrating expression of American cultural imperialism; on the other, there are good reasons (given by [USER=48965]@Imaro[/USER] ) to leave it out, or at least tread carefully. [*]For me, what is most offensive is the whole idea that evil only originates in villains, and that no-one should play characters living in a society that does evil things. We live in a world in which we depend upon, and are complicit in, ecological destruction and economic exploitation, up to and including slavery. The strength of a setting like Dark Sun (with or without slavery) is that it puts these issues front and centre and asks the players 'how will your character deal with this, given the danger of resisting and the difficulty of mere survival?'. [*]Speaking of which, your're not being moral if you're doing it for a reward. D&D is still premised on a worldview in which adventurers can and should murder 'legitimate' targets, and be rewarded for it by the powers that be. A depiction of a violent and hierarchical society that is nonetheless somehow idyllic if not for external enemies who are inherently evil and must be murdered is [I]actually[/I] 'problematic', in the way that we used to use the word. [/LIST] [/QUOTE]
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