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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 9561786" data-attributes="member: 23751">Whether or not this is debatable, the bolded is not true.&nbsp; People debate whether the Earth is round and other facts. That doesn't really make those things debatable.&nbsp; Some people just try to debate things that are not debatable.If people had just said to me, &quot;It doesn't matter what the rules say, I'm going to allow it anyway.&quot; I wouldn't have been arguing.&nbsp; I'd have just told them that for me I like running perception and help another by the rules, because I want it to make sense, and then I'd have told them that if they are having fun at their table running it like that, they are doing it right because fun is the point of the game.God knows I alter or ignore rules often enough.&nbsp; I'm not going to fault someone else for doing it.&nbsp; Instead some are giving me the argument (that is in my opinion absurd), that just staring at a bush silently since there's&nbsp; nothing to verbalize, is somehow helping the guy next to them see a rabbit better.&nbsp; And some of them try to move the goalposts and include other senses to the visual only roll or assume the helper has already seen the thing and is guiding the one they are helping.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 9561786, member: 23751"] Whether or not this is debatable, the bolded is not true. People debate whether the Earth is round and other facts. That doesn't really make those things debatable. Some people just try to debate things that are not debatable. If people had just said to me, "It doesn't matter what the rules say, I'm going to allow it anyway." I wouldn't have been arguing. I'd have just told them that for me I like running perception and help another by the rules, because I want it to make sense, and then I'd have told them that if they are having fun at their table running it like that, they are doing it right because fun is the point of the game. God knows I alter or ignore rules often enough. I'm not going to fault someone else for doing it. Instead some are giving me the argument (that is in my opinion absurd), that just staring at a bush silently since there's nothing to verbalize, is somehow helping the guy next to them see a rabbit better. And some of them try to move the goalposts and include other senses to the visual only roll or assume the helper has already seen the thing and is guiding the one they are helping. [/QUOTE]

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