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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mistwell" data-source="post: 3796620" data-attributes="member: 2525">It's not "based on terrain".  You have repeatedly claimed that is a rule, but it's not.  The spot rule says you need a spot check to determine when an encounter begins.  Page 22 of the DMG further states, under "Starting an Encounter" section: See how that works? And see how it's not about hide checks or obstructions? Just like the Spot rule says, you can use a spot check to determine when an encounter begins, and it's not necessarily involving any sort of obstructions or hiding or terrain issues at all.  If reading at a distance is an encounter, then it's mentioned in the spot rule.You know how.  You're playing a semantics game right now, but if you answer that question honestly you already know how.Then you should DM more often.  Hundreds of things happen in a game that you need to actually interpret the rules to use them.  The rules are not going to spoon feed you every single potential type of thing that might come up.  You need to be able to view the rules for what they are - basic outlines for the game, and not totally inclusive tomes that cover all situations for the game in exacting detail.  If something comes up that requires a character to try and see something at a distance, it's a spot check.  Even if the spot check doesn't say "use this rule to be able to see a small bird on a tree branch a mile away", if a character is trying to see a small bird on a tree branch a mile away they need to make a spot check.  That's not a house rule - that is the spot rule.  ALL the rules require some level of interpretation like that to function fully.In the spot rule.  It's clear to me.  It's clear to many others.  It also matches logic, that you cannot see around the planet and spot the back of your head if there are no obstructions, or a hundred miles away, for example.  You know that's what that rule means, but semantically you are having fun right now with the rule (which is fine, though it will get tiresome after a while).No, it's set by the DM based on the circumstances.  How large is the object, are there obstructions, what is the distance, what is the lighting, and is there anything about the target that would cause it to blend in with the background.  A DM has to think about the encounter and come up with a DC for the spot check.  That's it, that's all it requires.  It's not a house rule, it's just how the rules operate.  I'm sorry not every conceivable situation is spelled out to your satisfaction in the rules, but that doesn't mean there are not rules for that kind of situation.Like all checks, it's set by the circumstances.The PHB and DMG give guidelines, and ultimately the DM defines it.  Like they define all skill check DCs.So you're characters can see any distance, provided there is no obstruction, even if that distance is a thousand miles, provided the curvature of the planet does not obstruct their vision?  You see how silly this is, right.  You're instinct tell you that you must be wrong, so why won't you follow those instincts at all?They are not, they just are not as detailed as you would like.  I suspect it's because you more often play than DM.  We could be having this discussion about ANY skill.  Skills are broad categories and not nearly as specific as you seem to think they are.  That's why the DM has circumstance modifiers at hand, and a host of other guidelines to help set DCs.</blockquote>

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