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Message: <blockquote data-quote="chriton227" data-source="post: 3799351" data-attributes="member: 33263">Actually, it is easy to see something beyond 300' with a +10 spot.  Creatures larger than Medium have a penalty to hide (up to -16 for colossal creatures) and creatures moving have a penalty to hide (up to -20 for running or attacking).  So a Colossal dragon with a 10 dex and no ranks in hide running across the featureless plains would be a DC -35 (assuming a 1 on the hide roll).  The Spot +10 character would have a chance to see it as far away as 650'.By what you are saying, playing american rules football in D&D, the QB standing in one end zone (probably only a spot of +3 or +4 for an amature) would not be able to see the wide receiver (probably a dex of +1 or +2) on the opposite 25 yd line waiting for the hail mary pass.  A soccer player probably wouldn't be able to see the soccer ball (tiny or smaller, at least a +8 hide) about 1/2 down the field.  An adventurer with a +0 spot would have 50/50 odds be able to spot a meatball (diminuitive, +16 hide, -5 dex, total +11) on the plate in front of them in the tavern. That also means that a character looking up at noon on a clear day couldn't see the sun, as it is so far away that no one could have a spot check high enough.  Obviously characters can see the sun regardless of their spot skill, so the spot must not rigidly limit their sight range in all situations.Your interpretation means that the rule that projectile weapons can shoot at targets up to 10 range increments away is useless, as noone will ever be able to see that far.  An archer with Far Shot and a composite longbow has a maximum range of 2400', and can have that at 1st level.  I'm not saying that an archer would be able to descern details at that range, but picking out a target that isn't hiding would be possible.  If something were to be hiding at that range, it would be pretty much impossible to see them, but then the target is making an active effort to avoid being seen by getting behind something (hiding requires concealment or cover). If someone were using a spyglass in my game, I would allow it to reduce the spot penalties to -1 per 20'.  I would use my descretion as a DM regarding descerning fine details like how far away a character would be able to read 1 inch tall letters on the side of a barn or seeing and identifying a person not trying to hide.  For a quick rule of thumb, I would use the size bonus/penalty to spot (+16 for diminuitive) as a rough guideline, then apply a liberal dose of common sense and life experience. In my experience, I can identify specific friends at about 200', and they would have a size bonus of +0.  Using the -1 per 10', that would be about 40' to read 1" letters.  I can identify that there is a "person" there (as opposed to a gorilla or a pony) roughly 3-4 times farther away than that, say 600'-800' away.  Since I could distinguish the actual letters at 40', I would say that you would be able to say that there was writing there (although not what it said) at about 120'-160' feet.  If someone were using a spyglass, I would double those distances. IIRC, the 2nd Ed. DM Screen or DMG actually listed distances at which you could descern "something is there", descern "type", and descern "individual identity" in various conditions.As far as using spot for encounter distance, that works great when following the rules listed in spot.  Assuming that there is plenty of illumination and no concealment (a drill field, a recently harvested flat field), neither side would be able to make hide checks, so there is no chance of the hide check being greater than the spot check, regardless of what the results of the spot check are.  A roll of -400 beats a roll of "I'm not allowed to do that" in my game.  So the parties would become aware of each other as soon as they had a clear line of sight and initiative would be rolled, and the initiative roll would represent who was the quickest to notice and react to the other party.  If the situation allowed for both parties to have concealment, opposed spots vs. hides would be appropriate, the party that spots at the longer distance would have surprise.  If only one party had concealment, the other party would be able to make spot vs. hide, if the distance was greater or equal to the line of sight distance they would spot each other at the same time, otherwise the concealed party would have surprise.  I could also see someone arguing that if there is no hiding/concealment, just make opposed spot checks and the winner gets surprise.The DMG lists under terrain guidelines for what the maximum spotting distance is for each terrain, beyond that the line of sight is obstructed by the terrain, whether it be due to trees, rocks, sand dunes, heat shimmers, or the contours of the land.  Exceptional terrain and situations (like a mirror smooth plane or looking out from the edge of a 1000' mesa) may require exceptions to the normal guidelines, but that is why there is a DM.</blockquote>

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