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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jhulae" data-source="post: 3802005" data-attributes="member: 16958">Except that your comparison is flawed again.  A dwarf in complete darkness with a +10, +100, or even +1000 to spot will *never* be able to see a Drow standing 61' away, regardless of whether the Drow is hiding or standing and jumping up and down.  Darkvision range is absolute.A Dwarf in complete darkness with a +10, +100, or even +1000 to spot will *never* be able to see the unlit ruins of a metropolis 61' away from where she's standing.  Darkvision range is absolute.A human with a bullseye lantern will be able to see something 61' away, even with a +0 to spot.A human (or any race) will be able to see the ruins of a metropolis *miles* away, regardless of their ranks in spot.The comparison between humans (or any kind of normal sight) versus darkvision is specious.Note too what the SRD has to say about the Spot skill:Nowhere does spot have any direct correlation between noticing creatures that aren't trying to be stealthy.  Also, they *may* be called for, but not necessarily, especially in open terrain. I'd also like to point out how you conveniently miss the "Listen checks, sight ranges, and so on" part of your DMG quote.  Sight ranges are specifically called out in terrain types.  For instance, the 'maximum' sighting distance given by the DMG (or SRD) in a plains encounter is 1440'.Now, I just feel I have to quote this part again.Even common sense says that your interpretation of maximum distance visible being based completely on Spot Skill is spurious.  I must personally have a tremendous spot skill because I can see airplanes flying in the sky, and I know they're much further away than 300'... And trying to say that this particular real world logic wouldn't apply to the game is sophistic as well, because I personally would hate to play in a campaign where my character has a +10 spot check and is standing 301' away from the gates of Waterdeep and I can't even see the city...Now, if something is *hiding* (or attempting to hide), I completely agree with you.  A character with a spot check of +10 isn't going to be spotting hiding things at any great distance.  Otherwise, see above.</blockquote>

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