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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mistwell" data-source="post: 3809882" data-attributes="member: 2525">No it's deliberately vague because, just like everything else on that chart, it's just an example and you have to look to the skill description itself for the details.  Distance is not irrelevant for spot checks.  That much is clear in the spot skill description.Again, please, no more moon, planet, star, or city references.  You know, I know, and everyone knows this is a rule for encounters and not role playing color.Your intepretation of that rule does not match the DMG description or the spot skill description.  The weight of the evidence is on my side that a spot check is called for to start an encounter at a distance.  Simply trying to fiat over all those rules without responding to it isn't compelling (at least it's not to me).It's not a straw man and I never said you brought it up.  I brought it up as a counter example to your examples.  Could you answer the question, like I have patiently answered yours?  If an ant is in plain view, 1000 yards away, can you see it without a spot check or can't you?  The logical extension of your view is that no check is required, or the check is against a DC 0, because it's in plain view regardless of distance or size (hence the DC would be 0 in your view).  If that is not correct, explain why.But there is.  I understand that's the point you were trying to make, I just disagree with it, and have presented rules as to why I disagree with it.  I'm really not sure at this point why you think there is a maximum sight limit to see someone hiding, but not a maximum sight limit to start an encounter.There is, however.  And it's in the spot skill.  You can call it a red herring all you want, but it's the issue at hand.  The -1 to checks per 10' has some meaning.  The DC to spot something in plain sight has some meaning.  The DMG rule that calls for spot checks to determine when an encounter starts has some meaning.Except it is, in the respect that you still need to deal with the maximum range for normal vision part of this debate.It's not a meaningless concept for game rules however.  We need to decide if it makes things larger, and thus the spot check easier, or it extends the maximum distance, which effectively makes the spot check easier for objects in closer range.I understand that part of your position, and I agree it's one reasonable interpretation of how to apply the x2 magnification effect of the spy glass.  I just think there is another reasonable interpretation, and the OP seemed to be asking if anyone could think of a reasonable interpretation of the existing rules that would allow that sort of thing to work.</blockquote>

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