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<blockquote data-quote="Branduil" data-source="post: 3810423" data-attributes="member: 11617">As the rules are fairly ambiguous on spotting things out in the open, I would start from the one rule we do have: DC 0 check to see something large out in the open. Large is not defined in this context, so I'd have make an assumption. Something like a full moon on a cloudless night would be DC 0. So things smaller than that would be harder to see. We're basically in DM fiat territory here.&nbsp; Let's say it's a black bug on a while wall 1 mile away. The way I would adjust the DC for size is this: A creature or object 1/4 the size of a DC 0 object would have a +4 bonus to DC for DC 4, while a creature or object 4 times as large would have a -4 modifier, for DC -4. For every quartering or quadrupling of size, I would multiply by 4. So if a creature is 1/4 of 1/4 the size of a DC 0 object, it would be a DC 16 spot check to see. Rather unscientifically, I would guess that a Colossal-sized creature not hiding a mile away would be DC 0. Also unscientifically, I'll simplify and say that each step down in size is equal to being a creature or object 1/4 smaller. So, 4x4x4x4x4x4x4= 4^7= DC 16,384 to see a fine sized creature a mile away. Sounds about right. Of course in reality I would never have my players makes such a spot check anyway. And it is irrelevant to the question of whether or not there is such a thing as a maximum range for normal vision.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Branduil, post: 3810423, member: 11617"] As the rules are fairly ambiguous on spotting things out in the open, I would start from the one rule we do have: DC 0 check to see something large out in the open. Large is not defined in this context, so I'd have make an assumption. Something like a full moon on a cloudless night would be DC 0. So things smaller than that would be harder to see. We're basically in DM fiat territory here. Let's say it's a black bug on a while wall 1 mile away. The way I would adjust the DC for size is this: A creature or object 1/4 the size of a DC 0 object would have a +4 bonus to DC for DC 4, while a creature or object 4 times as large would have a -4 modifier, for DC -4. For every quartering or quadrupling of size, I would multiply by 4. So if a creature is 1/4 of 1/4 the size of a DC 0 object, it would be a DC 16 spot check to see. Rather unscientifically, I would guess that a Colossal-sized creature not hiding a mile away would be DC 0. Also unscientifically, I'll simplify and say that each step down in size is equal to being a creature or object 1/4 smaller. So, 4x4x4x4x4x4x4= 4^7= DC 16,384 to see a fine sized creature a mile away. Sounds about right. Of course in reality I would never have my players makes such a spot check anyway. And it is irrelevant to the question of whether or not there is such a thing as a maximum range for normal vision. [/QUOTE]

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