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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8086573" data-attributes="member: 93670">It comes down to how the game plays. A scout type pretty much regularly goes off on their own regularly becoming a party of one each time.  For someone sneaking off to scout darkvision is a huge boon.  For a big crunchy fighter/noisy cleric/barbarian/clumsy wizard sorcerer warlock etc they stay back in a safe spot while bob goes off to scout.  If chuck is a human...[spoiler="lighthouse"][ATTACH=full]126124[/ATTACH][/spoiler]Even if sir Becket can't see worth anything because a torch is 20 bright 20 dim, his player can see where all the baddies are & which are where unless bob is also denied & the penalties for not having darkvision are rarely enforced because light sources are frankly...[spoiler="a mess."]Torch<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Torch: 20ft dim 20ft bright</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Candle 5ft dim 5ft bright</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Hooded lantern 30tft dim, 30 ft bright</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bullseye lantern 120ft cone.. How the heck am I the gm supposed to run this at the table?  stop the game & play round by round <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battleship_(game)" target="_blank">battleship</a>?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bonefire?... not in phb but there are numerous cantrips to light or snuff one.[spoiler="xge create bonfire"] [ATTACH=full]126125[/ATTACH] [*]Literally there is no light from a bonfire or campfirein 5e including the create bonfire spell & even 3.5 didn't <a href="https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Vision_and_Light" target="_blank">seem</a> any better.  In all likelihood it probably wrks exactly the same if you have darkvision or not[/spoiler]</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">How do any of those affect the person carrying them or anyone standing in their light without gm fiat/houseruling? .. not like <a href="https://www.shutterstock.com/video/clip-19052971-brave-girl-traveling-night-forest-holding-fiery" target="_blank">this</a></li> </ul>[/spoiler]Darkvision doesn't start where darkness begins & extend 60ft, it starts at you & extends 20 feet past a torch. exactly the same as a lantern, or half a bullseye lantern.  There are no lightsources made for darkvision but quite a few that will impose penalties on someone with superior darkvision.  In practice A situation like standing watch in a camp with a campfire tends to  treat both a nightblind human & an elf or drow elf  the same  at the AL tables I see around me. "He's in direct sunlight so disadvantage" comes up a lot at tables I'm at or tables around me, but "it's dark so you can't see/dim so disadvantage" almost never. Tell a human rogue that his 28 stealth  check was ignored because he looks like a lighthouse & yourprobably up for a fight because none of the rules back that... Tell a drow or kobold "Yea it's in direct sunlight" & that's exactly how the rules are structured.I agree that it's too easy for everyone to have darkvision in 5e without even trying</blockquote>

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