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<blockquote data-quote="Treebore" data-source="post: 3666383" data-attributes="member: 10177">Part of my reason for saying he is neutral evil is because Neutral eVil only cares about what they want, and getting it the most efficient way possible.So Vader see's his getting what he wants most efficiently in a lawful or ordered system, rather than a chaotic and corrupt system. So I see it as that is why he supports a &quot;ordered galaxy&quot;, it makes and keeps it easiest for him to maintain power over the Empire, where as chaos would greatly restrict his influence, and therefore power.So Vader's fundamental motivations are all about what he wants, and how best to get them. A lawful Empire is much easier to control rather than a chaotic one, hence he supports an &quot;ordered empire&quot;.But his personal motivations are simply to give himself everything he wants. SO that is why I call him neutral evil. Selfish evil.Which is why giving up his life to finally save his own son &quot;restores&quot; him to the good side of the force. He finally put someone elses needs before his own. He finally understood why a person would sacrifice themselves for someone else, and did it. Which also finally revealed to him the one of the deepest meanings of &quot;unconditional love&quot;.Still, I could make a lot of solid arguments that the Jedi council was not good as a whole. Over all, the council was Lawful Neutral. Even so they also supported a lot of &quot;chaos&quot; as well. So maybe they could even be argued to be True Neutral in the overall effects of their decisions.Doesn't really matter, though. Its a great movie series with great characters. Thats what matters.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Treebore, post: 3666383, member: 10177"] Part of my reason for saying he is neutral evil is because Neutral eVil only cares about what they want, and getting it the most efficient way possible. So Vader see's his getting what he wants most efficiently in a lawful or ordered system, rather than a chaotic and corrupt system. So I see it as that is why he supports a "ordered galaxy", it makes and keeps it easiest for him to maintain power over the Empire, where as chaos would greatly restrict his influence, and therefore power. So Vader's fundamental motivations are all about what he wants, and how best to get them. A lawful Empire is much easier to control rather than a chaotic one, hence he supports an "ordered empire". But his personal motivations are simply to give himself everything he wants. SO that is why I call him neutral evil. Selfish evil. Which is why giving up his life to finally save his own son "restores" him to the good side of the force. He finally put someone elses needs before his own. He finally understood why a person would sacrifice themselves for someone else, and did it. Which also finally revealed to him the one of the deepest meanings of "unconditional love". Still, I could make a lot of solid arguments that the Jedi council was not good as a whole. Over all, the council was Lawful Neutral. Even so they also supported a lot of "chaos" as well. So maybe they could even be argued to be True Neutral in the overall effects of their decisions. Doesn't really matter, though. Its a great movie series with great characters. Thats what matters. [/QUOTE]

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