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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GreyLord" data-source="post: 9133420" data-attributes="member: 4348">I think with Video Games it was inevitable that the idea of RPGs as they are now would have somehow eventually been stumbled upon.Perhaps not in the form of D&D, but some form of RPG would have happened.  WE look at the evolution of games such as Call of Duty and see it develop from just a FPS to an FPS with skills and other things that contribute to it, or Assassin's Creed with how it started and how it looks today (more similar to a simple RPG in a way). That said, I think Arneson gets too little credit in some ways, and I say that as an Avid Gygax fan. Arneson didn't just have an "idea" of a game, he had rules and a working game.  D&D was his game to the fullest extent (though also not his game...remember...chainmail...though if adventures in fantasy is anything to go on, a lot of stuff not connected to chainmail as well).   However, if you like the D20 system...I believe you can thank Dave for that (and all of us who had no understanding of Chainmail because we didn't have the rules and used the alternative...that's right...D20 was an ALTERNATE system...Gygax wanted us all to use Chainmail).The core of the game today, the D20 (and the AC system that goes with it though it's now reversed)...that's an Arneson device. However, Gygax, from what I understand, did take the core ideas of Arneson and input many of his own ideas and numbers into the game itself.  It wasn't just a rote exercise.  It was a combination of his ideas mixed in with the ideas Arneson put forth.  I feel the ORIGINAL game was truly a combination of Arneson's original rules and the additions and changes Gygax made to them.Without Gygax, I don't think the game would have been greatly successful.  Gygax was the more experienced rules creator and was better at understanding what could and what would not work (IMO). The original rules were the wild, wild, west of RPGs.  If you've ever read the three books, they are very skimpy on rules descriptions.  It's really up to whoever is running the game to make heads or tails of it.  It really DID require a referee (aka...Dungeonmaster) to run the game.  I won't run a D&D game these days without the Greyhawk supplement.  That one supplement changed the game.Without Arneson, I feel much of what we know as D&D would not have existed.  The D20 usage that we use today in D&D wouldn't be there (once again, IMO).  In fact, 5e could be seen as a completely different game than TSR D&D...with one of the few remaining iconic items from TSR being the use of a D20...a reminder of Arneson...not Gygax.Arneson liked rules just as much as the next guy (if you have Adventures in Fantasy...take a look through it.  It's far more complicated to me than the three original books...or even the original books plus Blackmoor and Greyhawk combined).  It's more defined in some ways than the Original 3 books.  They probably are NOT the original rules for D&D, but they show he LOVED rules overall.   He didn't just have ideas for D&D...he had rules.  It was a working game he had.NOW...that was his contribution.  He contributed VERY little to what came after.  There was a LOT that came after.  AD&D can be seen as a culmination of all those various rules that came out...and the result is a VERY DIFFERENT game than OD&D.  The evolution between OD&D and AD&D...to me...created a game which was almost as different between the two as AD&D and 3e.  The difference between those 3 booklets and the PHB, DMG, and MM of AD&D are massive.  It didn't change all at once, it was a gradual change between what was in the magazines, what came in the supplements, etc...but it was a cumulative change that was massive in the end.  THAT's Gygax's legacy.  AD&D and even B/X and BECMI are Gygax's legacy. So...does Arneson deserve royalties, or did he?  Should George Lucas (if he hadn't sold the rights to Disney) deserve royalties for all Star Wars merchandise, even those materials he didn't have a hand in creating?  Does JK Rowling deserve royalties for all Harry Potter merchandise, even the stuff she has no hand in making?  Does the Disney Family deserve to keep getting money from Disney, even from things that have no relation to things they originally had a hand in creating?If you say yes to those questions, you probably feel that Arneson should have continued to get royalties, even from things such as the MM2.  If you answered no, you probably feel he should not have.Even as AD&D (IMO) was really truly a Gygax creation finally (as much as 3e and 4e were a WoTC creation, and 5e is also), I still think as one of the originators of the game, Arneson probably was deserving or royalties for his placement at it's beginning (and as I mentioned, his contributions and legacy still affect the game today, even if people don't realize it).</blockquote>

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