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David Noonan on 4E "Cloudwatching" (Added Dave's newest comment from his blog)
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<blockquote data-quote="Khaalis" data-source="post: 3756444" data-attributes="member: 2167"><p>Actually its not the best time. As we've already seen, if they were to release major parts of the system before they are finalized and they change, people would scream bloody murder "YOU SAID IT WOULD BE X!" People tend to ignore the "it is still in design and might change" part. As for the response of the industry to changes, we have been giving them feedback for years now. To the release of 3X in general, and to all of the pre-4X material that has come out in the guise of 3X (e.g. Bo9S:ToB, UA, Complete X). We've also been giving feedback on 4X system designs in SW:Saga. This doesn't even mention all the feedback to alternate systems like Iron Heroes, etc. We need to keep in mind that these people do this for a living AND a hobby. They aren't white collar "suits" throwing something together to sell while not knowing their demographic. I truly believe that the R&D team is doing their best to make a good game. Will their definition of "good" be the same as yours, of mine, or someone else's? Maybe, maybe not. You can't please everyone.</p><p></p><p></p><p>And we will get this. In time. Its too soon to be letting out major information. We already have a lot of information. More than I think most companies would release at such an early date in the production schedule. You also have to realize that this is where real world marketing comes into play. Its is a solid marketing plan to slowly "leak" information and previews. It is done all the time in the software and movie industries (as well as others). It builds awareness and interest (and yes hype). The bottom line is that they need to sell the product. The bigger the release and more successful the release, the better chance they have to continue the product line. If the product is shoddy, then it will flop right out the door. Keep in mind that they will open play testing to those outside their "comfort zone" from RPGA and D&DInsider subscribers as well as all the people at the conventions from February on that will be play testing the 4E preview modules. The book will also go for review to many sources at least 2 months pre-release which will again give us lots more "unbiased" opinion. All of this will come in time. To expect them to basically say "Hi. We're releasing 4E in May, but heres half the scoop now." is a bit much to expect. Even in movies and software all you get are teasers at first, with more information and longer previews coming closer to release. SOP.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Don't take this as an attack, but I'd suggest going back and reading a bunch of the Dev's blogs. I don't have the time to dig up every quote, but I can't count how many times I've specifically read them say that they had ideas, tested them and scrapped them to go back to the drawing board. In fact the latest was they are just starting a new round of play tests to test the kinks they worked out in the last pass. Not many companies will freely admit how often they have had to re-look at their design process or had to scrap ideas. They have been perfectly open with the fact that they are human and that not every idea has panned out. That makes me willing to keep an open mind until I can see the product and judge the project as a whole for myself.</p><p></p><p></p><p>As to the topic of still selling 3E material, I think this is a poor attack on WotC and a general misunderstanding of the business process involved. Yes they announced 4E when they still had a handful of 3E products coming. This couldn't be helped unless they wanted to cease they're entire production and release cycles. However, they have made a huge leap to say that all content after those sources will be Edition Independent (i.e. not reliant on mechanics from either 3E or 4E). The only reason there are still 3E materials coming out is because they have been in the production pipeline for months (up to as many as 6 or more). People seem to forget that you don't write the material, get the art, get it compiled, edited, laid out, printed and shipped in a week. This process takes months to complete. There are enough independent publishers on this site to ask about this process. They will tell you isn't easy nor is it fast. I do however, agree that the newly released True 3E content will not sell well. I think that only those that are hardcore "never leaving 3X" players will bother with them for the most part.</p><p></p><p>Again, JMHO. YMMV.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Khaalis, post: 3756444, member: 2167"] Actually its not the best time. As we've already seen, if they were to release major parts of the system before they are finalized and they change, people would scream bloody murder "YOU SAID IT WOULD BE X!" People tend to ignore the "it is still in design and might change" part. As for the response of the industry to changes, we have been giving them feedback for years now. To the release of 3X in general, and to all of the pre-4X material that has come out in the guise of 3X (e.g. Bo9S:ToB, UA, Complete X). We've also been giving feedback on 4X system designs in SW:Saga. This doesn't even mention all the feedback to alternate systems like Iron Heroes, etc. We need to keep in mind that these people do this for a living AND a hobby. They aren't white collar "suits" throwing something together to sell while not knowing their demographic. I truly believe that the R&D team is doing their best to make a good game. Will their definition of "good" be the same as yours, of mine, or someone else's? Maybe, maybe not. You can't please everyone. And we will get this. In time. Its too soon to be letting out major information. We already have a lot of information. More than I think most companies would release at such an early date in the production schedule. You also have to realize that this is where real world marketing comes into play. Its is a solid marketing plan to slowly "leak" information and previews. It is done all the time in the software and movie industries (as well as others). It builds awareness and interest (and yes hype). The bottom line is that they need to sell the product. The bigger the release and more successful the release, the better chance they have to continue the product line. If the product is shoddy, then it will flop right out the door. Keep in mind that they will open play testing to those outside their "comfort zone" from RPGA and D&DInsider subscribers as well as all the people at the conventions from February on that will be play testing the 4E preview modules. The book will also go for review to many sources at least 2 months pre-release which will again give us lots more "unbiased" opinion. All of this will come in time. To expect them to basically say "Hi. We're releasing 4E in May, but heres half the scoop now." is a bit much to expect. Even in movies and software all you get are teasers at first, with more information and longer previews coming closer to release. SOP. Don't take this as an attack, but I'd suggest going back and reading a bunch of the Dev's blogs. I don't have the time to dig up every quote, but I can't count how many times I've specifically read them say that they had ideas, tested them and scrapped them to go back to the drawing board. In fact the latest was they are just starting a new round of play tests to test the kinks they worked out in the last pass. Not many companies will freely admit how often they have had to re-look at their design process or had to scrap ideas. They have been perfectly open with the fact that they are human and that not every idea has panned out. That makes me willing to keep an open mind until I can see the product and judge the project as a whole for myself. As to the topic of still selling 3E material, I think this is a poor attack on WotC and a general misunderstanding of the business process involved. Yes they announced 4E when they still had a handful of 3E products coming. This couldn't be helped unless they wanted to cease they're entire production and release cycles. However, they have made a huge leap to say that all content after those sources will be Edition Independent (i.e. not reliant on mechanics from either 3E or 4E). The only reason there are still 3E materials coming out is because they have been in the production pipeline for months (up to as many as 6 or more). People seem to forget that you don't write the material, get the art, get it compiled, edited, laid out, printed and shipped in a week. This process takes months to complete. There are enough independent publishers on this site to ask about this process. They will tell you isn't easy nor is it fast. I do however, agree that the newly released True 3E content will not sell well. I think that only those that are hardcore "never leaving 3X" players will bother with them for the most part. Again, JMHO. YMMV. [/QUOTE]
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