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David Noonan on D&D Complexity
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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 3121055" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>Here's a thought for streamlining dragons.</p><p></p><p>How much is the spellcasting really worth in CR terms? +1, +2? +3 at the absolute outside? So, here's my idea.</p><p></p><p>Strip out the spellcasting completely. Then use an older dragon with a +2 CR from what you were going to use. That pretty much includes all the buffs - AC, BAB, HP - automatically, makes his saving throws high enough that he can survive and you're good to go. Now you have a nice melee engine of destruction and you don't have to worry about spellcasting whatsoever.</p><p></p><p>So, if I was going to use an adult Blue dragon (CR 14), I simply strip out the 5 sorc levels he would have, and use a mature Blue (CR 16) without the 7th level sorc abilities.</p><p></p><p>To be fair, it should be remembered that it is only at the very top end that dragons get so many spellcasting abilities. Even a CR 16 Blue dragon only has 7 levels of sorc - not a huge thing to deal with.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Scry comes with a saving throw. That means that dragons are almost certainly NEVER going to get scryed. Since you cannot scry locations, scry/buff/teleport is a very poor option at best. Heck, a simple illusion spell would screw up the teleport.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 3121055, member: 22779"] Here's a thought for streamlining dragons. How much is the spellcasting really worth in CR terms? +1, +2? +3 at the absolute outside? So, here's my idea. Strip out the spellcasting completely. Then use an older dragon with a +2 CR from what you were going to use. That pretty much includes all the buffs - AC, BAB, HP - automatically, makes his saving throws high enough that he can survive and you're good to go. Now you have a nice melee engine of destruction and you don't have to worry about spellcasting whatsoever. So, if I was going to use an adult Blue dragon (CR 14), I simply strip out the 5 sorc levels he would have, and use a mature Blue (CR 16) without the 7th level sorc abilities. To be fair, it should be remembered that it is only at the very top end that dragons get so many spellcasting abilities. Even a CR 16 Blue dragon only has 7 levels of sorc - not a huge thing to deal with. Scry comes with a saving throw. That means that dragons are almost certainly NEVER going to get scryed. Since you cannot scry locations, scry/buff/teleport is a very poor option at best. Heck, a simple illusion spell would screw up the teleport. [/QUOTE]
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