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David Noonan on D&D Complexity
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<blockquote data-quote="delericho" data-source="post: 3125480" data-attributes="member: 22424"><p>Not hard, but the grapple rules, at least, are more complex than they need to be, and as one other poster pointed out they often work contrary to fun ("I'm pinned? Okay, I'll try a grapple check. I failed. Oh well, maybe next round.").</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Are high level Fighters useless? If so, then I suggest that class needs radically rethought. If not, then it certainly is possible to remove spellcasting from dragons and have them remain a threat.</p><p></p><p>In any event, much of the "Design & Development" column seems to point towards a new edition. And, if we're considering a new edition then it is certainly valid to decide what we want dragons to be, and then to build the rules accordingly. And I'm sorry, but my concept of 'dragon' does not suggest that they should in every case be potent wizards.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Actually, a dragon generally is harder to run than most equivalent CR NPCs, because of the special rules that go with them. Between frightful presence, breath weapons and flight, you have three little-used areas of the rules, each of which is a special case with associated rules. Most NPCs don't have the same sort of load associated with them.</p><p></p><p>And, as I've mentioned before in the thread, I feel the prep time required both for powerful dragons and for high level NPCs is too high, and something needs done to streamline the process.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I have found few things in the expanded rules that come close to the polymorph spells in terms of complexity. Certainly, entirely new systems like Psionics and Incarnum are up there, but most of the books do minimal harm, if any.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I could not disagree more. Firstly, removing unnecessary complexity from the game does not equate to it being 'dumbed down'. Secondly, if you're not going to engage people who are actually going to think in depth about the rules of the game in the development of the new edition, then at best you're going to get a new edition that's essentially the same as the current edition. And, if that's what they're going to do, why bother with a new edition at all?</p><p></p><p>(Also, I think it bears pointing out that much of the 'dumbing down' seen in the articles in question comes about because of the very specific situation for which the PCs and dragons were designed - specifically to be played by players of indeterminate skill from a clipboard. The design challenges of such a task are distinctly different from those in a normal campaign, hence the extreme focus on removing complex elements.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="delericho, post: 3125480, member: 22424"] Not hard, but the grapple rules, at least, are more complex than they need to be, and as one other poster pointed out they often work contrary to fun ("I'm pinned? Okay, I'll try a grapple check. I failed. Oh well, maybe next round."). Are high level Fighters useless? If so, then I suggest that class needs radically rethought. If not, then it certainly is possible to remove spellcasting from dragons and have them remain a threat. In any event, much of the "Design & Development" column seems to point towards a new edition. And, if we're considering a new edition then it is certainly valid to decide what we want dragons to be, and then to build the rules accordingly. And I'm sorry, but my concept of 'dragon' does not suggest that they should in every case be potent wizards. Actually, a dragon generally is harder to run than most equivalent CR NPCs, because of the special rules that go with them. Between frightful presence, breath weapons and flight, you have three little-used areas of the rules, each of which is a special case with associated rules. Most NPCs don't have the same sort of load associated with them. And, as I've mentioned before in the thread, I feel the prep time required both for powerful dragons and for high level NPCs is too high, and something needs done to streamline the process. I have found few things in the expanded rules that come close to the polymorph spells in terms of complexity. Certainly, entirely new systems like Psionics and Incarnum are up there, but most of the books do minimal harm, if any. I could not disagree more. Firstly, removing unnecessary complexity from the game does not equate to it being 'dumbed down'. Secondly, if you're not going to engage people who are actually going to think in depth about the rules of the game in the development of the new edition, then at best you're going to get a new edition that's essentially the same as the current edition. And, if that's what they're going to do, why bother with a new edition at all? (Also, I think it bears pointing out that much of the 'dumbing down' seen in the articles in question comes about because of the very specific situation for which the PCs and dragons were designed - specifically to be played by players of indeterminate skill from a clipboard. The design challenges of such a task are distinctly different from those in a normal campaign, hence the extreme focus on removing complex elements.) [/QUOTE]
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