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David Noonan on D&D Complexity
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<blockquote data-quote="delericho" data-source="post: 3125706" data-attributes="member: 22424"><p>Actually, each of those is also a special case. However, none of the three maneuvers you cited are as complex as grapple. My evidence? The Battle Box from Fiery Dragon has handy maneuver cards. The cards for the three maneuvers have a paragraph of text on each. The grapple card is packed with very small text, and still doesn't summarise the rules adequately.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And hold person was changed in the 3.5 revision to give a save every round because the old version wasn't fun.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>They got a few particular spell-like abilities. They still get a few particular spell-like abilities. That's not even close to the current raft of Sorcerer spells they also currently get.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Fine. Replace the three special cases I cited with the crush attack, the spell-like abilities, the Sorcerer spells, the different reach for different attack forms, or any of the other features that make dragons more complex than just about any other encounter in the game. Only beholders and hydras spring to mind as being near the same level of complexity.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Whenever a dragon is to be encountered, there is a significant section of the MM that needs reread, because of all the special cases and special effects that apply, and also because dragons are encountered so rarely. All this goes towards making dragons the most complex encounters to run.</p><p></p><p>Note that I haven't suggested that dragons are 'too complex'. But I am saying that they are more complex than just about anything else that the DM can throw at his group.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="delericho, post: 3125706, member: 22424"] Actually, each of those is also a special case. However, none of the three maneuvers you cited are as complex as grapple. My evidence? The Battle Box from Fiery Dragon has handy maneuver cards. The cards for the three maneuvers have a paragraph of text on each. The grapple card is packed with very small text, and still doesn't summarise the rules adequately. And hold person was changed in the 3.5 revision to give a save every round because the old version wasn't fun. They got a few particular spell-like abilities. They still get a few particular spell-like abilities. That's not even close to the current raft of Sorcerer spells they also currently get. Fine. Replace the three special cases I cited with the crush attack, the spell-like abilities, the Sorcerer spells, the different reach for different attack forms, or any of the other features that make dragons more complex than just about any other encounter in the game. Only beholders and hydras spring to mind as being near the same level of complexity. Whenever a dragon is to be encountered, there is a significant section of the MM that needs reread, because of all the special cases and special effects that apply, and also because dragons are encountered so rarely. All this goes towards making dragons the most complex encounters to run. Note that I haven't suggested that dragons are 'too complex'. But I am saying that they are more complex than just about anything else that the DM can throw at his group. [/QUOTE]
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