Dc for monster special abilities

[0-hr]

Where does it say how to figure out the DC for a monster's special ability?

For example:

Paralysis (Ex): Those hit by a ghoul’s bite or claw attack must succeed on a DC 12 Fortitude save or be paralyzed for 1d4+1 rounds. Elves have immunity to this paralysis. The save DC is Charisma-based.

A ghoul is 2 HD. If I make one with 3HD, how do I tell if the DC increases?


And as an aside, does the "DC is Charismas-based" mean

1) that the DC fluctuates with the ghoul's Charisma

or

2) that the DC fluctuates with the victim's Charimsa

I'm fairly certain that it is #1, but a couple friends thought that it meant the victim made a FORT save using their CHR instead of CON (which is bad news for the barbarian's out there!).
So I just wanted to check.

Honestly, that "DC is Charisma-based" line seems rather confusing and redundant to have in the book in so many places. Changing monster stats just doesn't seem so common as to warrant the comment every single time. A simple paragraph up front about how to adjust the DC for alternate versions of the cirtter would have done a better job and advoided a lot of confusion (on my part at least).

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Honestly, that "DC is Charisma-based" line seems rather confusing and redundant to have in the book in so many places. Changing monster stats just doesn't seem so common as to warrant the comment every single time.

The general formula is 10 + 1/2 HD + Abilty Mod.

It mentions which ability mod is applicable in every instance because it is entirely possible that an intelligent ghoul might put on a Cloak of Charisma.

Additionally, many monsters can be summoned, and if they are summoned by someone with the Augment Summoning feat (+4 Str, +4 Con), then the DCs for some of their abilities (chiefly, poison, which is usually Con based) will change.

Besides, it'd be really silly to only include it some of the time, don't you think?

 

[Grazzt]

monster ability save DCs are always DC 10 + 1/2 HD + ability score.

In the case of the ghoul, the "Charisma-based" means its based on the ghoul's Charisma score. If the ghou's Cha score goes up or down enough to change the ability modifier, then the ghoul's save DCs will change as well.


So, say ya have a 4 HD monster with a poison attack. It has a Con score of 14 (+2 mod).

Poison (Ex): Monster XXX delivers a virulent poison with its bite attack. A creature bitten must succeed on a DC 14 Fortitude save or take... blah blah blah.... The save DC is Constitution-based.

DC 14 = 10 + 2 (one half HD) + 2 (Con ability score mod).

 

[FEADIN]

Where does it say how to figure out the DC for a monster's special ability?

For example:


A ghoul is 2 HD. If I make one with 3HD, how do I tell if the DC increases?


And as an aside, does the "DC is Charismas-based" mean

1) that the DC fluctuates with the ghoul's Charisma

or

2) that the DC fluctuates with the victim's Charimsa

I'm fairly certain that it is #1, but a couple friends thought that it meant the victim made a FORT save using their CHR instead of CON (which is bad news for the barbarian's out there!).
So I just wanted to check.

Honestly, that "DC is Charisma-based" line seems rather confusing and redundant to have in the book in so many places. Changing monster stats just doesn't seem so common as to warrant the comment every single time. A simple paragraph up front about how to adjust the DC for alternate versions of the cirtter would have done a better job and advoided a lot of confusion (on my part at least).

From the Monster manual:

Special Attacks and Special Qualities
Many creatures have unusual abilities. A monster entry breaks these abilities into special attacks and special qualities. The latter category includes defenses, vulnerabilities, and other special abilities that are not modes of attack. A special ability is either extraordinary (Ex), spell-like (Sp), or supernatural (Su). Additional information (when needed) is provided in the creature’s descriptive text.
When a special ability allows a saving throw, the kind of save and the save DC is noted in the descriptive text. Most saving throws against special abilities have DCs calculated as follows: 10 + 1/2 the attacker’s racial Hit Dice + the relevant ability modifier.
The save DC is given in the creature’s description along with the ability on which the DC is based.

 

[0-hr]

Thanks, I just couldn't find that in the SRD - and the bit about a ghoul possibly using a magic item to up a stat is a good point!

 

[Nail]

.... but a couple friends thought that it meant the victim made a FORT save using their CHR instead of CON (which is bad news for the barbarian's out there!).

Oh dear.

Where in the world did they read that?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

"The save DC is Charisma-based."

Not,

"The saving throw is Charisma-based, rather than Constitution-based."

 

[TheGogmagog]

From the Monster manual:
Special Attacks and Special Qualities
When a special ability allows a saving throw, the kind of save and the save DC is noted in the descriptive text. Most saving throws against special abilities have DCs calculated as follows: 10 + 1/2 the attacker’s racial Hit Dice + the relevant ability modifier.

Sweet!! Learn something new every day. I hadn't been increasing the save DC's.

 

[IcyCool]

Oh dear.

Where in the world did they read that?

I know this isn't the same thing exactly, but have you read Touch of Golden Ice? Go figure that freak show out.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The general formula is 10 + 1/2 HD + Abilty Mod.

Half racial hit dice... so character levels don't increase a ghoul's save DC, unless he uses the 4-level bumps to up his Charisma noticeably.

-Hyp.