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Message: <blockquote data-quote="TheGogmagog" data-source="post: 3571288" data-attributes="member: 27702">I'm not concerned what the BBEG's skill check is.  I'm concerned about what the DC is.  Also you generally can't take 20 on a knowlege check you either know it or don't.  Which is why I also considered the arbitrary DC 15 for setting the trap.  I suppose I could roll a D20 and add modifieres, but if the result is 11, then our idea wasn't that clever.  Or we could add a situational modifier (+4 if the DM thinks it's a really clever idea) and then roll.  We might end up at DC 13 or 32, perhaps our solution was obvious considering our resources etc....  The thing is the DM just isn't sure how to handle it.  (his PC is down and I told him I'd check the boards).Since I'm not getting any response here's a specific example.  It involves a few DM rulings as given that might not be RAW, that I don't want to discuss.  A person must pray at a holy site for 8 hours, the BBEG just has to show up and interupt the person to waste his attempt for the day.  After the first attempt was broken we went to the site and cast an extended rope trick.  A new addition to the party goes into the rope trick, pulls the rope in and begins to pray.  The house ruling is that the rope trick counts for this prayer/ritual (don't bother arguing this point).  It is also visible only with see invisibility AND the window has facing (not visible from the back at all).  The BBEG probably had see invisibility, but was definitly was on the wrong side of the trick.So, when he disrupts everyone in our party and the ritual is still complete, the most obvious conclusion is there was someone else there that he couldn’t see.  There are dozens of ways of achieving this.  Most directly invisibility and risking the area of effects (fireball cloudkill) disrupting the ritual.  Perhaps an extended reduce person hiding within the area and under total concealment (under a bucket or something).  Burying someone with a reed to breathe, and so on.  The BBEG is surely smart enough to come up with ONE way to achieve the trick.  What would the DC be to figure out what method we figured out?</blockquote>

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