Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
DDN Alignment Sidebar
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="mlund" data-source="post: 5991949" data-attributes="member: 50304"><p>Chaotic is about applying your own standards and disregarding those of others. Good vs. Neutral vs. Evil is a matter of what those standards are. If you don't have any compunctions against hurting or killing others to get what you want you're evil. If you have some sort of standards that preclude you from murdering folks when it would sate your appetites you're probably neutral. If you feel moral obligation to make personal sacrifices to help others and oppose evil you're probably good.</p><p></p><p>The real mess comes from when Chaos becomes an excuse to apply an ego-centric definition of Good and Evil and suddenly Chaotic Evil is claiming to be Neutral or Good because they think the world is evil and killing the weak is right, just, and generally just doing them a favor.</p><p></p><p>To make the Chaotic scale of alignment work you have to have an external criteria of Good and Evil that's more codified than a Chaotic character might be willing to accept.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think the difference between Neutral and Good is that Neutral is merely Benign towards the stranger while Good is downright Benevolent. The idea that Neutral means "I don't care about Good and Evil" or "I want balance between Good and Evil" or "I don't believe in Good and Evil," is where the real problem is.</p><p></p><p>Plenty of Chaotic Evil characters don't believe in Good and Evil either. Amoral and Immoral can go hand-in-hand. Animals are Amoral without being Immoral because they lack the capacity to reason morally.</p><p></p><p>Lawful Evil characters may desire very strongly to see a balance between Good and Evil in the world. Whenever an adventurer kills a marauding Elder Red Dragon then murder a hundred orphaned children or something to "maintain the balance." They are Evil with a capital "E."</p><p></p><p>Good vs. Evil is about what you are willing to do to and for others. Neutrality is about being unwilling or unable to cross the line into a life of malicious depravity or heroic virtue. In that regard "Unaligned" from 4E is a better fit that "True Neutral." My 9-point alignment view goes something like this:</p><p></p><p>Lawful Evil --- Lawful --- Lawful Good</p><p>Evil -------- Unaligned -------- Good</p><p>Choatic Evil -- Chaotic -- Chaotic Good</p><p></p><p>If something is sworn above all else to implementing the Balance he's Lawful himself (by motive and deed) even if his code an oath of Neutrality. Why he believes in this balance and lines he's willing to cross to maintain it determined whether he's Lawful Good, Lawful Evil, or just Lawful.</p><p></p><p>When someone says, "I'd love to help" or "I hate to have to do this" and follows up with, "but 'the Balance Must Be Maintained,'" he's behaving in an Awfully Lawful fashion.</p><p></p><p>- Marty Lund</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="mlund, post: 5991949, member: 50304"] Chaotic is about applying your own standards and disregarding those of others. Good vs. Neutral vs. Evil is a matter of what those standards are. If you don't have any compunctions against hurting or killing others to get what you want you're evil. If you have some sort of standards that preclude you from murdering folks when it would sate your appetites you're probably neutral. If you feel moral obligation to make personal sacrifices to help others and oppose evil you're probably good. The real mess comes from when Chaos becomes an excuse to apply an ego-centric definition of Good and Evil and suddenly Chaotic Evil is claiming to be Neutral or Good because they think the world is evil and killing the weak is right, just, and generally just doing them a favor. To make the Chaotic scale of alignment work you have to have an external criteria of Good and Evil that's more codified than a Chaotic character might be willing to accept. I think the difference between Neutral and Good is that Neutral is merely Benign towards the stranger while Good is downright Benevolent. The idea that Neutral means "I don't care about Good and Evil" or "I want balance between Good and Evil" or "I don't believe in Good and Evil," is where the real problem is. Plenty of Chaotic Evil characters don't believe in Good and Evil either. Amoral and Immoral can go hand-in-hand. Animals are Amoral without being Immoral because they lack the capacity to reason morally. Lawful Evil characters may desire very strongly to see a balance between Good and Evil in the world. Whenever an adventurer kills a marauding Elder Red Dragon then murder a hundred orphaned children or something to "maintain the balance." They are Evil with a capital "E." Good vs. Evil is about what you are willing to do to and for others. Neutrality is about being unwilling or unable to cross the line into a life of malicious depravity or heroic virtue. In that regard "Unaligned" from 4E is a better fit that "True Neutral." My 9-point alignment view goes something like this: Lawful Evil --- Lawful --- Lawful Good Evil -------- Unaligned -------- Good Choatic Evil -- Chaotic -- Chaotic Good If something is sworn above all else to implementing the Balance he's Lawful himself (by motive and deed) even if his code an oath of Neutrality. Why he believes in this balance and lines he's willing to cross to maintain it determined whether he's Lawful Good, Lawful Evil, or just Lawful. When someone says, "I'd love to help" or "I hate to have to do this" and follows up with, "but 'the Balance Must Be Maintained,'" he's behaving in an Awfully Lawful fashion. - Marty Lund [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
DDN Alignment Sidebar
Top