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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GuardianLurker" data-source="post: 4080896" data-attributes="member: 786">Still on the fenceI'm still on the fence personally.Going in, I heard a lot of good design principles, but the rumored implementations still felt a little flat to me. I was actually worried that there'd be so many changes it wouldn't feel like D&D anymore.The good news is that it still feels like D&D. The bad news is that I didn't see any compelling reason to switch. This isn't to say that I won't be switching, just that there's a very real possibility I won't be switching until after my current campaign is over (and it just started).The biggest part of the bad news is that they reduced the complexity on the GM side by spreading some of it to the players (though some is just outright gone). A perfect example are what used to be saves and done by the target, are now attacks rolled by the attacker. Unfortunately, in doing so, a lot of the GM-bookkeeping tactics for dealing with saves in large groups (such as rolling "group" saves), are now much more intrusive, so if you're not careful you could end up with 2 mages each attacking a group of 10 monsters with an area spell, resulting in a total of twenty rolls, where in pre-4e, the GM would much likelier roll 2 saves total (or maybe 4, 8, or 10). I also have a feeling that the area effect damage will feel more complicated in play to most people than it really is. It certainly did to me.In terms of doing "stuff", 1st level 4e characters seem to have about the same number of abilities and tactical choices as ~3rd level 3.x characters. Despite all the talk about "something to do every round", it many cases that was the same thing (because, frankly, some of the power choices are just no-brainers). Which implies a further power creep. On the plus side it does mean that every character seemed to be in parity.The caveat to that is that the characters are very low level, and even in 3.x, there isn't a lot of power differential between a 3rd level fighter and a 3rd level mage. I suspect that most of the "simplifying" changes and/or "balancing" changes won't really start to impact until higher levels (maybe late Heroic, but more likely Paragon).Finally, a lot of the changes I saw could, for the most part, be implemented in a 3.x game. Not the "at will/encounter/daily" division of powers, but most of the rest, including the healing changes. I expect that there will be a sizable contingent of GMs who retrofit/bolt-on those 4e changes to a 3e framework. I might even be one of them.I didn't see anything to drive me away, but I didn't see anything to pull me in either. I really want to see the books when they come out in June. And hopefully the intro adventure will be Paragon-level. I just need more information.</blockquote>

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