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De-emphasizing Combat (+)
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<blockquote data-quote="Stormonu" data-source="post: 8451786" data-attributes="member: 52734"><p>Let’s face it, the D&D game has spilled a lot of ink on the combat system, it’s a very robust minigame within the system itself.</p><p></p><p>But with the likes of the attempt in Witchhaven to present a method to overcome challenges without resorting to combat, what about a system for still having combat, but greatly de-emphasizing it, so that is no more involved than say, a skill challenge where the characters were investigating a murder mystery?</p><p></p><p>How would you propose handling such a system?</p><p></p><p>Some of my own thoughts…. [spoiler]</p><p>I think it would be clear in such a system counting hit points and damage points would be more abstracted - maybe reducing characters and monsters to states such as “Healthy”, “Wounded”, “Battered” and “Defeated”. </p><p></p><p>Weapons and attack cantrips would be more flavor than dealing precise, scaled damage with possible multiple attacks going away. Characters and monsters would be assumed to be skilled at presenting a threat; things like Sneak Attack, Smite, Cantrip damage increases and Extra Attacks wouldn’t have to be defined at a granular level - they would just be singluar “attack” roll that on success moves the enemy down a level. Weapon/Spell qualities would still have some uses - attacking a skeleton with a piercing weapon might impose disadvantage on your check, using non-silvered weapons would be problematic against lycanthropes, or your fire bolt might have no effect on an Efreet, for example.</p><p></p><p>Perhaps the most difficult would be spells and spell slots. If cantrips scale, then either the leveled spells like Magic Missile, Fireball and the like either need to be dropped or changed in some manner - say, focusing on the ability to hit multiple targets, deal more levels of damage at once or do something out of the ordinary (such as <em>hold</em> spells keeping the enemy from being able to counterattack or some such). In some cases, it might be appropriate to reduce the number of spell slots some of the classes get (most likely on NPCs, as we’ve seen with the likes of Kelek in Witchlight) since a number of spells would likely be less tied up for combat use.</p><p></p><p>Some thought, will of course, have to be put into monsters. Lesser monsters might be grouped together into a single target or pool - such as a band of goblins or kobolds. Combat abilities would, of course, be abstracted, and the question would be whether they get active actions or if they only trigger when players fail their checks. The player target DCs for their checks would be set by some of the attributes of the monster - for example, if a character attacks with a weapon, they’d use the monster’s AC as the DC, or if they threw a fireball spell the monster would check against the player’s spell DC (or somehow invert it so the player is making the roll). Conversely, the DM might call for the player’s to make some sort of a defensive check - if the they were facing a Dragon one of the skill checks would be to save against its breath weapon, losing perhaps two levels of health if they fail the check, one if they succeed (and the rogue retaining the ability to reduce the level by one…).</p><p></p><p>For example, going with the Dragon as a solo enemy, with four players & DM:</p><p></p><p>Player 1: chooses to attack with their Longsword. Makes an Attack (Strength) skill check with a +7 to hit against the Dragon’s 21 AC. On a roll of 14 or higher, the player reduces the Dragon’s health from Healthy to Wounded. If the PC fails the check, their own Health is reduced one level to represent the dragon attacking back.</p><p></p><p>Player 2: Similar, but this character decides to attack with the Shocking Grasp spell, making a Spell (Intelligenc) skill check with a +6 to hit against the Dragon’s 21 AC. As above, on a success they reduce the Dragon’s Health a level, possibly from Wounded to Battered. On a failure, the PC’s Health is reduced a level, again assumed from the dragon’s attacks.</p><p></p><p>DM: If the dragon was reduced to Battered, it triggers the Dragon’s breath reaction. Everyone has to make a Dexterity saving throw. Those that fail, lose two Health levels, on a success only one is lost (Again, if someone had an Evasion-like ability, they’d reduce the Health loss by one level).</p><p></p><p>Player 3: As above, using skills or abilities to overcome the challenge. Perhaps, with the Dragon so battered, this character attempts to use Persuasion (Charisma) to remove the dragon’s last Health level by convincing it to surrender or fly away. On a success, the Dragon moves to Defeated. On a failure, the Dragon fights on (and is perhaps immune to future attempts of Persuasion to make it surrender), and the PC loses a Health level, as things continue. </p><p></p><p>The primary change is that the game isn’t wrapped up in the blow-by-counterblow interplay of the normal game. In a single go-around or two, the fight is over with and the game moves on to the next activity of exploration or interaction.</p><p>[/spoiler]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Stormonu, post: 8451786, member: 52734"] Let’s face it, the D&D game has spilled a lot of ink on the combat system, it’s a very robust minigame within the system itself. But with the likes of the attempt in Witchhaven to present a method to overcome challenges without resorting to combat, what about a system for still having combat, but greatly de-emphasizing it, so that is no more involved than say, a skill challenge where the characters were investigating a murder mystery? How would you propose handling such a system? Some of my own thoughts…. [spoiler] I think it would be clear in such a system counting hit points and damage points would be more abstracted - maybe reducing characters and monsters to states such as “Healthy”, “Wounded”, “Battered” and “Defeated”. Weapons and attack cantrips would be more flavor than dealing precise, scaled damage with possible multiple attacks going away. Characters and monsters would be assumed to be skilled at presenting a threat; things like Sneak Attack, Smite, Cantrip damage increases and Extra Attacks wouldn’t have to be defined at a granular level - they would just be singluar “attack” roll that on success moves the enemy down a level. Weapon/Spell qualities would still have some uses - attacking a skeleton with a piercing weapon might impose disadvantage on your check, using non-silvered weapons would be problematic against lycanthropes, or your fire bolt might have no effect on an Efreet, for example. Perhaps the most difficult would be spells and spell slots. If cantrips scale, then either the leveled spells like Magic Missile, Fireball and the like either need to be dropped or changed in some manner - say, focusing on the ability to hit multiple targets, deal more levels of damage at once or do something out of the ordinary (such as [i]hold[/i] spells keeping the enemy from being able to counterattack or some such). In some cases, it might be appropriate to reduce the number of spell slots some of the classes get (most likely on NPCs, as we’ve seen with the likes of Kelek in Witchlight) since a number of spells would likely be less tied up for combat use. Some thought, will of course, have to be put into monsters. Lesser monsters might be grouped together into a single target or pool - such as a band of goblins or kobolds. Combat abilities would, of course, be abstracted, and the question would be whether they get active actions or if they only trigger when players fail their checks. The player target DCs for their checks would be set by some of the attributes of the monster - for example, if a character attacks with a weapon, they’d use the monster’s AC as the DC, or if they threw a fireball spell the monster would check against the player’s spell DC (or somehow invert it so the player is making the roll). Conversely, the DM might call for the player’s to make some sort of a defensive check - if the they were facing a Dragon one of the skill checks would be to save against its breath weapon, losing perhaps two levels of health if they fail the check, one if they succeed (and the rogue retaining the ability to reduce the level by one…). For example, going with the Dragon as a solo enemy, with four players & DM: Player 1: chooses to attack with their Longsword. Makes an Attack (Strength) skill check with a +7 to hit against the Dragon’s 21 AC. On a roll of 14 or higher, the player reduces the Dragon’s health from Healthy to Wounded. If the PC fails the check, their own Health is reduced one level to represent the dragon attacking back. Player 2: Similar, but this character decides to attack with the Shocking Grasp spell, making a Spell (Intelligenc) skill check with a +6 to hit against the Dragon’s 21 AC. As above, on a success they reduce the Dragon’s Health a level, possibly from Wounded to Battered. On a failure, the PC’s Health is reduced a level, again assumed from the dragon’s attacks. DM: If the dragon was reduced to Battered, it triggers the Dragon’s breath reaction. Everyone has to make a Dexterity saving throw. Those that fail, lose two Health levels, on a success only one is lost (Again, if someone had an Evasion-like ability, they’d reduce the Health loss by one level). Player 3: As above, using skills or abilities to overcome the challenge. Perhaps, with the Dragon so battered, this character attempts to use Persuasion (Charisma) to remove the dragon’s last Health level by convincing it to surrender or fly away. On a success, the Dragon moves to Defeated. On a failure, the Dragon fights on (and is perhaps immune to future attempts of Persuasion to make it surrender), and the PC loses a Health level, as things continue. The primary change is that the game isn’t wrapped up in the blow-by-counterblow interplay of the normal game. In a single go-around or two, the fight is over with and the game moves on to the next activity of exploration or interaction. [/spoiler] [/QUOTE]
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