Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Enchanted Trinkets Complete--a hardcover book containing over 500 magic items for your D&D games!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Dealing with a devil
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="N'raac" data-source="post: 6699331" data-attributes="member: 6681948"><p>I'll add one more below, but this is a great analysis.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This, and the examples that precede it, are all great examples of the classic trope of the shrewd dealmaker exploiting loopholes, delivering only as much of the truth as needed, etc. that the folklore associates with Devils. However, if one reads that folklore and fiction, one other matter comes through: the Devil typically wins against the wicked, but loses against the righteous. If his deal is ironclad in his own favour, with nothing the devil overlooks which might allow a PC win - that, too, is not true to the folklore. The challenge also includes building the contract to be one that challenges, but does not guarantee defeat, for the PC's.</p><p></p><p>Celebrim hits upon one - "We have brought you the dagger. It is the exact , shattered fragments of metal which it was when we met, exactly one year ago. Nothing in our contract specified it would be whole, </p><p>just as your own promise did not commit that it would be. We have honoured the terms of the bargain. So, too, must you!"</p><p></p><p>Ideally, the flaw in his plan will be a failure to contemplate the PC's doing something he would never contemplate - something they do because they are Good and Honourable, that no Devil would even consider a possibility.</p><p></p><p>The Devil won't show up? The Inn will be gone? What Devil misses his chance to gloat over the failure of the Righteous? Running the Devil as a perfectly rational being is no better than running a PC who always makes the perfect tactical decision, never showing a trace of personality.</p><p></p><p>Besides, he must want the dagger. Why? Because there is nothing else in the bargain for him. And a Devil will always have something in any bargain for him! If the dagger is shattered and cannot be repaired, he has some other reason for wanting that dagger's remnants.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="N'raac, post: 6699331, member: 6681948"] I'll add one more below, but this is a great analysis. This, and the examples that precede it, are all great examples of the classic trope of the shrewd dealmaker exploiting loopholes, delivering only as much of the truth as needed, etc. that the folklore associates with Devils. However, if one reads that folklore and fiction, one other matter comes through: the Devil typically wins against the wicked, but loses against the righteous. If his deal is ironclad in his own favour, with nothing the devil overlooks which might allow a PC win - that, too, is not true to the folklore. The challenge also includes building the contract to be one that challenges, but does not guarantee defeat, for the PC's. Celebrim hits upon one - "We have brought you the dagger. It is the exact , shattered fragments of metal which it was when we met, exactly one year ago. Nothing in our contract specified it would be whole, just as your own promise did not commit that it would be. We have honoured the terms of the bargain. So, too, must you!" Ideally, the flaw in his plan will be a failure to contemplate the PC's doing something he would never contemplate - something they do because they are Good and Honourable, that no Devil would even consider a possibility. The Devil won't show up? The Inn will be gone? What Devil misses his chance to gloat over the failure of the Righteous? Running the Devil as a perfectly rational being is no better than running a PC who always makes the perfect tactical decision, never showing a trace of personality. Besides, he must want the dagger. Why? Because there is nothing else in the bargain for him. And a Devil will always have something in any bargain for him! If the dagger is shattered and cannot be repaired, he has some other reason for wanting that dagger's remnants. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Dealing with a devil
Top