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<blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 6639153" data-attributes="member: 5143">I would likely say &quot;you know there's no plumbing in this world, right? The guards aren't going to believe that. They might fall for something else though.&quot;Still, I believe that it's the player's responsibility to come up with that &quot;something else&quot;. Getting through a challenge like this is 50% player ingenuity and 50% character skill. The player comes up with an idea, which sets the DC for the skill check. Try to convince the guard that you are secretly Elminster and watch the DC rise to 20. Try to convince them that you are a traveling merchant and need shelter and the DC becomes 10. But I don't assist my players in coming up with the ideas because that's half the fun...seeing what they come up with. Unfortunately, the player in question started playing in 4e and played through too many skill challenges that were run like this: &quot;You need to build a bridge. What do you do?&quot; &quot;My best skill is Arcana. I roll 25.&quot; &quot;Ok, you Arcana the wood into a bridge.&quot;Now he expects that when he picks up a die and rolls high that it doesn't matter what his idea is. It works. But the issue is that there are 4 or 5 other players who have no problem with my style and I feel that changing for one person is just giving in to someone's whining. I don't want to reward that. Besides, the only way I can see to change my style so that he would enjoy it is to make everything he says succeed all the time or to constantly suggest &quot;correct&quot; answers to the problems I lay before him. My game would have to go like this:&quot;You know the bandits wear gray cloaks so you could likely dress in those and infiltrate their camp. I'll assume you bought those cloaks 2 days ago when you were in town when you came up with this plan. You know that the bandits have been hiring new people lately so there will be new recruits for you to blend in with. You know the tensions are high with the kobolds so if a new recruit was to show up and claim to have been attacked by kobolds, you could disrupt the talks. You do that. Give me a Deception check to see if the plan succeeds.&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Majoru Oakheart, post: 6639153, member: 5143"] I would likely say "you know there's no plumbing in this world, right? The guards aren't going to believe that. They might fall for something else though." Still, I believe that it's the player's responsibility to come up with that "something else". Getting through a challenge like this is 50% player ingenuity and 50% character skill. The player comes up with an idea, which sets the DC for the skill check. Try to convince the guard that you are secretly Elminster and watch the DC rise to 20. Try to convince them that you are a traveling merchant and need shelter and the DC becomes 10. But I don't assist my players in coming up with the ideas because that's half the fun...seeing what they come up with. Unfortunately, the player in question started playing in 4e and played through too many skill challenges that were run like this: "You need to build a bridge. What do you do?" "My best skill is Arcana. I roll 25." "Ok, you Arcana the wood into a bridge." Now he expects that when he picks up a die and rolls high that it doesn't matter what his idea is. It works. But the issue is that there are 4 or 5 other players who have no problem with my style and I feel that changing for one person is just giving in to someone's whining. I don't want to reward that. Besides, the only way I can see to change my style so that he would enjoy it is to make everything he says succeed all the time or to constantly suggest "correct" answers to the problems I lay before him. My game would have to go like this: "You know the bandits wear gray cloaks so you could likely dress in those and infiltrate their camp. I'll assume you bought those cloaks 2 days ago when you were in town when you came up with this plan. You know that the bandits have been hiring new people lately so there will be new recruits for you to blend in with. You know the tensions are high with the kobolds so if a new recruit was to show up and claim to have been attacked by kobolds, you could disrupt the talks. You do that. Give me a Deception check to see if the plan succeeds." [/QUOTE]

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