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Dealing with a trouble player and a major blow up
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<blockquote data-quote="iserith" data-source="post: 6639212" data-attributes="member: 97077"><p>Sure, I do things the same way, only I don't always assume a check will be required. (See DMG pgs. 236-237.) The bolded is the extent to which I was referring helping the player come up with another ruse, one that fits the expectations of the setting. I'm not suggesting playing the game <em>for</em> them, just getting on the same page.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That is not how your game <em>would</em> have to go. It <em>could</em> go otherwise. It might even have gone better than it did.</p><p></p><p>The player's plan had merit: Engage in a deception to make each side think the other was attacking them. That was the goal. Could it have been better? Sure. Could it have been worse? Sure. Does it have a chance to succeed? Maybe, if the approach is reasonable.</p><p></p><p>So here was the approach: Toss kobold corpses into the kobold camp, throw rocks at remove into bandit camp and pretend to be kobolds doing the throwing. We can now set the expectation with the players that if they can pull off those two things without a hitch, then their plan will work.</p><p></p><p>Now it's time for those hitches. During the execution of the approach, we introduce complications that arise to challenge their efforts in a fun way. Wolves are attracted to the kobold corpses being taken uphill to be dropped on the camp and their baying threatens to give away the ruse - <em>what do you do?</em> On the way to drop the rocks on the bandits, a rope ladder on the tree reveals a scout hidden in thick branches who hasn't spotted the party yet - <em>how do you deal with this?</em> And so on. If they overcome those complications, then their plan works. If they do okay with some and not with others, then maybe their plan works at a cost or with an additional complication to overcome. If they do poorly on all the complications, then perhaps their plan fails.</p><p></p><p>The way you tell it, they executed their plan at which point unforeseen circumstances arose after the fact that they perceived they could do little about. To the players - who you said weren't pleased with certain results (not just the guy who blew up) - this may have looked like failure because the DM simply didn't like their plan. It feels like a big waste of time. That can be very frustrating as I indicated in my initial post in this thread.</p><p></p><p>Of course, you may be constrained as to what you can do because it's an organized play scenario (or whatever). But I'm just showing you how it <em>could</em> be done in a way that may ease the tension you're seeing. As you can see, I've validated the player's ideas, said that his or her <em>reasonable</em> plan will work if the party can overcome certain complications along the way. I've acknowledged the idea and added to it rather than looked for reasons that it can't work.</p><p></p><p>Now, none of this may fix the social situation you're in which is no doubt based in some part on a complicated history between you and this player. <em>And I am in no way condoning or making excuses for the player's behavior in this situation</em>. But hopefully it at least gives you some additional tools to try out sometime.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="iserith, post: 6639212, member: 97077"] Sure, I do things the same way, only I don't always assume a check will be required. (See DMG pgs. 236-237.) The bolded is the extent to which I was referring helping the player come up with another ruse, one that fits the expectations of the setting. I'm not suggesting playing the game [I]for[/I] them, just getting on the same page. That is not how your game [I]would[/I] have to go. It [I]could[/I] go otherwise. It might even have gone better than it did. The player's plan had merit: Engage in a deception to make each side think the other was attacking them. That was the goal. Could it have been better? Sure. Could it have been worse? Sure. Does it have a chance to succeed? Maybe, if the approach is reasonable. So here was the approach: Toss kobold corpses into the kobold camp, throw rocks at remove into bandit camp and pretend to be kobolds doing the throwing. We can now set the expectation with the players that if they can pull off those two things without a hitch, then their plan will work. Now it's time for those hitches. During the execution of the approach, we introduce complications that arise to challenge their efforts in a fun way. Wolves are attracted to the kobold corpses being taken uphill to be dropped on the camp and their baying threatens to give away the ruse - [I]what do you do?[/I] On the way to drop the rocks on the bandits, a rope ladder on the tree reveals a scout hidden in thick branches who hasn't spotted the party yet - [I]how do you deal with this?[/I] And so on. If they overcome those complications, then their plan works. If they do okay with some and not with others, then maybe their plan works at a cost or with an additional complication to overcome. If they do poorly on all the complications, then perhaps their plan fails. The way you tell it, they executed their plan at which point unforeseen circumstances arose after the fact that they perceived they could do little about. To the players - who you said weren't pleased with certain results (not just the guy who blew up) - this may have looked like failure because the DM simply didn't like their plan. It feels like a big waste of time. That can be very frustrating as I indicated in my initial post in this thread. Of course, you may be constrained as to what you can do because it's an organized play scenario (or whatever). But I'm just showing you how it [I]could[/I] be done in a way that may ease the tension you're seeing. As you can see, I've validated the player's ideas, said that his or her [I]reasonable[/I] plan will work if the party can overcome certain complications along the way. I've acknowledged the idea and added to it rather than looked for reasons that it can't work. Now, none of this may fix the social situation you're in which is no doubt based in some part on a complicated history between you and this player. [I]And I am in no way condoning or making excuses for the player's behavior in this situation[/I]. But hopefully it at least gives you some additional tools to try out sometime. [/QUOTE]
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