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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 9065725" data-attributes="member: 6785785">But nothing I said doesn't allow for those kinds of mysteries. I commented about sharing information with players. Tell the player what they need to know in order to make informed decisions as a player.So they don't know what's beyond a given dungeon door, but they know they can try and listen to detect noise and have X chance of success, or that they have spells they can use to learn what's in there, or that they if they interact with another denizen of the dungeon, they may be able to learn what's beyond the door... and so on. Game information shouldn't be hidden from the players. Now, I wouldn't disagree about players being able to decide the stakes and the consequences and things like that... but I wasn't really commenting on that in my initial post. I wanted to start at a more fundamental level. I think making a distinction here between GM and players is mistaken. It's a group activity, and everyone involved is there to try and help everyone else enjoy themselves. I don't think this is the special purview of the GM, nor do I think it excuses them from self-indulgence as you've described. I would say that, if you want to allow for player agency, then the GM has to relinquish some of their control. They have to stop being self-indulgent. I think the comparison to adventure paths is pretty telling. Having a specific story... or path... benefits from a sole authority in the game. The adventure path is antithetical to player agency. I don't think that the focus of play can be both telling a story and allowing the players agency. If you have a story to tell then everything is going to shape itself around that story. If the GM shows up with a story already determined, there's not really going to be agency on the player's part. Their decisions and choices will be subordinate to that story.I agree that autonomy and agency aren't the same. But I'm not sure how you're defining autonomy here. To me, it's the most basic level of authority for a player in order for the activity to really be considered a game. That I get to have a turn, and what I do on that turn is up to me.... that's autonomy. Agency goes further in that it's more related to what the game is about, and how players are able to determine that. How players are able to say what is important to play. Not just how can a player interact with the GM's pre-written plot. But how they can forge their own plots. This is related to the stakes- and consequence-setting mentioned earlier. It's not about knowing the solution to the problems... the answer to the kinds of mysteries you mentioned... it's about deciding what mysteries even matter in the first place.</blockquote>

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