Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mustrum_Ridcully" data-source="post: 4884748" data-attributes="member: 710">Oh my god, no alignment debates! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />---I think the issue with player entitlement and DM entitlement is this: The player and the DM are entitled to enjoy the game they run or play in. It seems as if talking about any more concepts of player or DM entitlement tends to lead to calling other people names or at least disparaging their play/DM styles or whatever. That can't be useful for the discussion. Obviously, this is not happening here. At least one player is unhappy. I note the following:- Apparantly, none of the player picks up on the idea that you can try to negotiate after initiative is rolled. Considering that the DM apparently complained multiple times on this tells me that neither player nor DM have adapted their behavior or learned from this so far.- The DM seems to show a misunderstanding on the design considerations that went into 4E and how the game is balanced. It does appear to me - at least through the lens of wayne62682 post - that he changes rules out of ignorance, not out of understanding them. That is not a good place to start, no matter how much you believe a DM is god or a DM always has the final word in everything, or any "entitlement" considerations of players or DM. But of course, we are only seeing one side of the discussion.Aside from talking openly (and friendly) with the DM: - Next time the DM calls for initiative, don't assume it's a guaranteed combat. Try to talk with the enemies. Yes, that might mean sacrificing a round or so. If it turns out it won't work (and not just because you rolled badly), you might want to ask your DM why he tells you to negotiate if it generally fails? But maybe it turns out fine, and you've got one problem fixed!Figure out what the DM expects from the game. Maybe you can do that if you run the game for a while and see how he reacts to situations. Maybe you can do it by asking. Or listening to his complaints or suggestions. I wouldn't worry too much about suggested XP, levels, magic items by level and what-not. I would worry whether you feel challenged "fairly" - is it too easy or too difficult. It is nice if you know you can trust the rules as you know them, but it's usually more important to have a sense that you're winning because you are smart enough and not because it's too easy, and your failing because you made a mistake and not because the combat was just unfairly hard. Whatever your verdict is, try to explain this to the DM. And maybe the best thing to do really is "show, not tell" and just run your own 4E game where you do everything "right" as you see it. If all else fails, and you don't have fun - stop playing. Seriously, even if you generally under optimal conditions have less fun reading a book, doing stuff in the garden or playing videogames, under non-optimal conditions like that, they might be more fun and a better use of your free time. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

Verification