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<blockquote data-quote="Greenfield" data-source="post: 7356194" data-attributes="member: 6669384">So, on the original topic, are you saying that a character who is in love with Greater Invisibility isn't an issue to worry about?That does seem to be where you're going.&nbsp; Boss monsters should all be given True Sight, Tremorsense or something similar, and all monsters plan their field tactics around the idea that they're going to die anyway, so what difference does it make if you can take out a medium-to-large damage dealer?I'm sorry if that comes out as if I'm mocking you, but that does seem to be what your argument boils down to.When I DM my goal is to challenge the party.&nbsp; All of the party.&nbsp; If a PC has some favorite trick that lets him/her glide through without a challenge then I (as DM) am doing something wrong.I like to recognize that these characters aren't the first ones to ever try these tricks.&nbsp; I'm not expecting the typical Orc troop to have someone with See Invisible ready to hand to shut this guy down, but if nothing else they may know enough to retreat, to move the battle so their unseen attacker has to move as well.&nbsp; When he does the Hide bonus from Invisibility drops from +40 to +20.&nbsp; Still not great, but at least it's possible to spot him.&nbsp; Particularly if he gets overconfident and neglects to put any effort into Stealth.&nbsp; Then it's a flat 20 for the Spot/Perception target number.There's also the option of detect Magic.&nbsp; I don't typically allow that to bypass Invisibility (it normally tells them that there's magic in the area the first round, how many magic auras in the 2nd round, and their locations the 3rd round).&nbsp; Instead of giving fixed locations on round 3, I have the image stay fuzzy.&nbsp; Caster gets an approximate location, but not down to the square.But even with my house rule, does the Invisible PC have any other magic with them?&nbsp; If so then that can be located exactly.Plus side:&nbsp; I use a Cantrip or 1st level spell to counter a 4th level spell.&nbsp; Down side, I burn three rounds to do it.&nbsp; Sort of a fair balance.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Greenfield, post: 7356194, member: 6669384"] So, on the original topic, are you saying that a character who is in love with Greater Invisibility isn't an issue to worry about? That does seem to be where you're going. Boss monsters should all be given True Sight, Tremorsense or something similar, and all monsters plan their field tactics around the idea that they're going to die anyway, so what difference does it make if you can take out a medium-to-large damage dealer? I'm sorry if that comes out as if I'm mocking you, but that does seem to be what your argument boils down to. When I DM my goal is to challenge the party. All of the party. If a PC has some favorite trick that lets him/her glide through without a challenge then I (as DM) am doing something wrong. I like to recognize that these characters aren't the first ones to ever try these tricks. I'm not expecting the typical Orc troop to have someone with See Invisible ready to hand to shut this guy down, but if nothing else they may know enough to retreat, to move the battle so their unseen attacker has to move as well. When he does the Hide bonus from Invisibility drops from +40 to +20. Still not great, but at least it's possible to spot him. Particularly if he gets overconfident and neglects to put any effort into Stealth. Then it's a flat 20 for the Spot/Perception target number. There's also the option of detect Magic. I don't typically allow that to bypass Invisibility (it normally tells them that there's magic in the area the first round, how many magic auras in the 2nd round, and their locations the 3rd round). Instead of giving fixed locations on round 3, I have the image stay fuzzy. Caster gets an approximate location, but not down to the square. But even with my house rule, does the Invisible PC have any other magic with them? If so then that can be located exactly. Plus side: I use a Cantrip or 1st level spell to counter a 4th level spell. Down side, I burn three rounds to do it. Sort of a fair balance. [/QUOTE]

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