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<blockquote data-quote="Greenfield" data-source="post: 7359158" data-attributes="member: 6669384">Typically I presume that everyone is &quot;Taking ten&quot; on things like Hide/Move Silent.&nbsp; That is, unless they're trying to make noise or be otherwise obvious about it they'll put a causal effort into it.So noticing little things like the shuffle of footsteps where there shouldn't be any, the little differences in the way the air moves dust around an unseen object etc.?&nbsp; That's the basic DC 20 to know that there's something invisible within 30 feet, but not necessarily *where* within that 30 feet.Know which square they're in, when moving?&nbsp; Figure 30-ish unless they're attempting stealth.Know which square they're in when standing still?&nbsp; Back to 40 + stealth (where I presume a take 10 on the stealth at a minimum).&nbsp; Track them by sound?&nbsp; I don't know the numbers off hand, but they're in the book.Now the &quot;Take 10&quot; hing is my own standard, a house rule.&nbsp; By the same toke, everyone is presumed to be &quot;Taking 10&quot; on their Spot/Listen/Perception rolls as well.Your mileage may vary, of course. Ultimately, unless someone has a +15 or better in their Spot, they won't just casually notice the invisible person stalking them.&nbsp; They have to look and listen, and have to tell the DM so.&nbsp; If they don't then there's a -5 modifier that applies for &quot;Distracted&quot; Spot and/or Listen checks, so their casual Take 10 becomes a 5.&nbsp; +15 or over will notice.&nbsp; Otherwise, no.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Greenfield, post: 7359158, member: 6669384"] Typically I presume that everyone is "Taking ten" on things like Hide/Move Silent. That is, unless they're trying to make noise or be otherwise obvious about it they'll put a causal effort into it. So noticing little things like the shuffle of footsteps where there shouldn't be any, the little differences in the way the air moves dust around an unseen object etc.? That's the basic DC 20 to know that there's something invisible within 30 feet, but not necessarily *where* within that 30 feet. Know which square they're in, when moving? Figure 30-ish unless they're attempting stealth. Know which square they're in when standing still? Back to 40 + stealth (where I presume a take 10 on the stealth at a minimum). Track them by sound? I don't know the numbers off hand, but they're in the book. Now the "Take 10" hing is my own standard, a house rule. By the same toke, everyone is presumed to be "Taking 10" on their Spot/Listen/Perception rolls as well. Your mileage may vary, of course. Ultimately, unless someone has a +15 or better in their Spot, they won't just casually notice the invisible person stalking them. They have to look and listen, and have to tell the DM so. If they don't then there's a -5 modifier that applies for "Distracted" Spot and/or Listen checks, so their casual Take 10 becomes a 5. +15 or over will notice. Otherwise, no. [/QUOTE]

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