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<blockquote data-quote="Shiroiken" data-source="post: 8222737" data-attributes="member: 6775477">I want to start by pointing out that while there is optimization in 5E, the amount of available optimization really isn't as bad as it's been. A normal character is usually only slightly sub-optimal to full MinMax, leaving them viable within the same game. The only time I've seen this not the case is either with abused houserules or where a DM has misunderstood something. Some things make individuals better at specific things, but unlike 3E, no single character can come close to doing everything themselves.The solution is to look at what they're &quot;abusing&quot; and at least periodically shift the situation to completely negate it. A PAM GWM Paladin may be amazing... until the party faces a flying dragon that stays out of melee, relying on breath weapon and possibly spells. The same character would also have a lot of difficulty dealing with mobs of low HP enemies they kill with a single hit. Super high AC characters still have to roll saving throws. You get the idea.I disagree with the overall sentiment (a group of ^$*#$&amp;#@ players don't play well together either), but in the case of MinMax, they often get along quite well as a group.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Shiroiken, post: 8222737, member: 6775477"] I want to start by pointing out that while there is optimization in 5E, the amount of available optimization really isn't as bad as it's been. A normal character is usually only slightly sub-optimal to full MinMax, leaving them viable within the same game. The only time I've seen this not the case is either with abused houserules or where a DM has misunderstood something. Some things make individuals better at specific things, but unlike 3E, no single character can come close to doing everything themselves. The solution is to look at what they're "abusing" and at least periodically shift the situation to completely negate it. A PAM GWM Paladin may be amazing... until the party faces a flying dragon that stays out of melee, relying on breath weapon and possibly spells. The same character would also have a lot of difficulty dealing with mobs of low HP enemies they kill with a single hit. Super high AC characters still have to roll saving throws. You get the idea. I disagree with the overall sentiment (a group of ^$*#$&#@ players don't play well together either), but in the case of MinMax, they often get along quite well as a group. [/QUOTE]

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