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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8224306" data-attributes="member: 18">You have a naughty word-talking problem not an optimization problem. You're making a category error about the nature of the problem.I DM for groups where the real-terms DPS disparity is that large. There's no naughty word-talking. On the contrary, the higher-optimization guys cheer on the other PCs and often downplay their own awesomeness. I DM'd in 2nd edition where if someone was playing a Fighter and someone was playing a Thief, no matter how optimized the Thief was, the DPS disparity was larger than that. There was no naughty word-talking, or if there was, that's what I shut the down, not the optimizing.Now, I did play Cyberpunk 2020 and we did have naughty word-talking there. And I was part of the problem for while at 16-17. Then I grew up just a little bit and saw what I was doing, and stopped, reversed even. I didn't stop optimizing, but I did stop being a jerk about it.So throw out the naughty word-talkers! For god's sake. That's the problem here. Even if these guys weren't as good at optimizing (and given they're naughty word-talkers, they're probably lazily taking builds from the internet), they'd still be naughty word-talking. They'd still be finding ways to dunk on and be unpleasant to other players.Throw them out! naughty word-talking is your problem.(As an aside, most of the professional game groups I'm aware of have pretty well-optimized characters. In some cases they have broken characters, often using custom classes, incredibly powerful magic items and so on. But they're not being horrible to other players at the table. That's the problem, not the optimization.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 8224306, member: 18"] You have a [I]naughty word-talking[/I] problem not an [I]optimization[/I] problem. You're making a category error about the nature of the problem. I DM for groups where the real-terms DPS disparity is that large. There's no naughty word-talking. On the contrary, the higher-optimization guys cheer on the other PCs and often downplay their own awesomeness. I DM'd in 2nd edition where if someone was playing a Fighter and someone was playing a Thief, no matter how optimized the Thief was, the DPS disparity was larger than that. There was no naughty word-talking, or if there was, that's what I shut the down, not the optimizing. Now, I did play Cyberpunk 2020 and we did have naughty word-talking there. And I was part of the problem for while at 16-17. Then I grew up just a little bit and saw what I was doing, and stopped, reversed even. I didn't stop optimizing, but I did stop being a jerk about it. So throw out the naughty word-talkers! For god's sake. That's the problem here. Even if these guys weren't as good at optimizing (and given they're naughty word-talkers, they're probably lazily taking builds from the internet), they'd still be naughty word-talking. They'd still be finding ways to dunk on and be unpleasant to other players. Throw them out! naughty word-talking is your problem. (As an aside, most of the professional game groups I'm aware of have pretty well-optimized characters. In some cases they have broken characters, often using custom classes, incredibly powerful magic items and so on. But they're not being horrible to other players at the table. That's the problem, not the optimization.) [/QUOTE]

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