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<blockquote data-quote="Istbor" data-source="post: 8224628" data-attributes="member: 6801670">See this is where maybe some are having difficulty. When you say something like this; to me it doesn't read as optimization as the issue. Its that THESE player(s) are doing the optimization either in a way or to an extent that it stops being for the greater good of the group, and more for their own gain. You can feel powerful while still relying on others to cover your flaws or weaknesses, so that they too gain that feeling of being powerful and relevant. This just sounds more like time to have a 'real talk' discussion about how what they are doing is impacting the other players, yourself included. I mean honestly, I know it is terrible, but I wouldn't mind trying out a coffeelock at some point, or that interesting cleric combo you mentioned, that I have no actual clue about. These sound fun to me! Do I also understand that they probably have a specific place in certain campaigns and groups in which they fit and are allowed? Yes. If that bit, has been explained, and then ignored by the player(s) who are causing this rift, then it is on them.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Istbor, post: 8224628, member: 6801670"] See this is where maybe some are having difficulty. When you say something like this; to me it doesn't read as optimization as the issue. Its that THESE player(s) are doing the optimization either in a way or to an extent that it stops being for the greater good of the group, and more for their own gain. You can feel powerful while still relying on others to cover your flaws or weaknesses, so that they too gain that feeling of being powerful and relevant. This just sounds more like time to have a 'real talk' discussion about how what they are doing is impacting the other players, yourself included. I mean honestly, I know it is terrible, but I wouldn't mind trying out a coffeelock at some point, or that interesting cleric combo you mentioned, that I have no actual clue about. These sound fun to me! Do I also understand that they probably have a specific place in certain campaigns and groups in which they fit and are allowed? Yes. If that bit, has been explained, and then ignored by the player(s) who are causing this rift, then it is on them. [/QUOTE]

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