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<blockquote data-quote="iserith" data-source="post: 8225940" data-attributes="member: 97077">To my knowledge things like the coffeelock require a very bizarre understanding of how the game works. For Twilight and Peace combo, how does one multiclass into the same class? That doesn't sounds right to me.Overshadowing other PCs in combat isn't really a big deal in my view. Some characters are better in certain pillars of the game than others. My ranger isn't as good in combat as another player's barbarian, but that barbarian pales in comparison to my exploration options.I don't really know what you mean by &quot;breaks the game&quot; though. All of my players are big on optimization and the game doesn't break. You'd have to tell us a lot more about how you structure and run your game to be able to get any useful advice. I suspect you might not be running an expected amount of combat challenges per adventuring day and also suffer from too many players. That can make things wobbly for sure. The optimization of two out of seven players not so much.The &quot;story&quot; is whatever the PCs do over the course of the game. You may be referring to your &quot;plot,&quot; &quot;metaplot,&quot; or your quirky, cagey NPCs. If they're engaged in the combats, but less engaged in other scenes, and you have five other players there, what's really the issue, provided they're not disrupting these moments? Maybe try to add a little more combat to your game and put some actual stakes in your &quot;heavy roleplay&quot; and exploration scenes. My optimizers are fully engaged in all pillars simply by virtue of there being something on the line that they want. You're not just bs'ing with the quirky, cagey NPC - you're trying to get information that is critical to finding the lost treasure (for example) and you might not get it if you don't do this well.You don't get an optimizer to &quot;stop.&quot; You channel their knowledge and energy by altering your game to include their strengths and interests. And perhaps even change your expectations and attitude about how they enjoy the game. Since you have control over your own game design and how you perceive something, this is the only guaranteed way to change things. You have no control over other people, and in this case apparently, can't even stop playing with them. So control yourself and your game design.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="iserith, post: 8225940, member: 97077"] To my knowledge things like the coffeelock require a very bizarre understanding of how the game works. For Twilight and Peace combo, how does one multiclass into the same class? That doesn't sounds right to me. Overshadowing other PCs in combat isn't really a big deal in my view. Some characters are better in certain pillars of the game than others. My ranger isn't as good in combat as another player's barbarian, but that barbarian pales in comparison to my exploration options. I don't really know what you mean by "breaks the game" though. All of my players are big on optimization and the game doesn't break. You'd have to tell us a lot more about how you structure and run your game to be able to get any useful advice. I suspect you might not be running an expected amount of combat challenges per adventuring day and also suffer from too many players. That can make things wobbly for sure. The optimization of two out of seven players not so much. The "story" is whatever the PCs do over the course of the game. You may be referring to your "plot," "metaplot," or your quirky, cagey NPCs. If they're engaged in the combats, but less engaged in other scenes, and you have five other players there, what's really the issue, provided they're not disrupting these moments? Maybe try to add a little more combat to your game and put some actual stakes in your "heavy roleplay" and exploration scenes. My optimizers are fully engaged in all pillars simply by virtue of there being something on the line that they want. You're not just bs'ing with the quirky, cagey NPC - you're trying to get information that is critical to finding the lost treasure (for example) and you might not get it if you don't do this well. You don't get an optimizer to "stop." You channel their knowledge and energy by altering your game to include their strengths and interests. And perhaps even change your expectations and attitude about how they enjoy the game. Since you have control over your own game design and how you perceive something, this is the only guaranteed way to change things. You have no control over other people, and in this case apparently, can't even stop playing with them. So control yourself and your game design. [/QUOTE]

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