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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sword of Spirit" data-source="post: 8226139" data-attributes="member: 6677017">I can definitely sympathize with the frustration. I'm not sure exactly what your social dynamics are, but sometimes with established friends is not as simple as "dude, get on board or just don't play this game". Occasionally you have to walk a more delicate balance for one reason or another. I'm going to assume that's your current situation.So, if I've got it right, here's what's going on. You are playing in a group of 8 established friends, and you want to make sure everyone is enjoying themselves. You're able to easily provide a D&D experience that meshes really well with the interests and fun of 5 of your friends. The other 2 however, have basically diametrically opposed desires, and it's negatively impacting the experience for the remaining 6 of you. I am getting that right?What would be the expected outcome of my prior suggestion that you implement a rule where every character and every level-up has to be individually approved by you? I'm guessing that might not work because the over-optimizers might feel like they can't have any fun. Correct me if I'm wrong. If so, what other issues would there be with that suggestion?If the situation is as I expect, here's a different possible solution (a simplification of another suggestion from earlier in the thread). Assigned optimized characters a handicap in the form of a level adjustment. If a character is over the borderline of optimization to the point that it will negatively impact the rest of the group's experience, they are permanently 1 level lower than everyone else. If they are even further than that, it's 2 or 3 levels lower. If you start at first level, just introduce that level adjustment gradually. You try to balance this so it's actually fair. The goal here is that the over-optimizers will still be a little better than the PCs (and thus be able to have fun with what they want to), but it will be within your group's tolerance of fun level. Is that one workable? If not, what particular issues does it fail to address?It sounds like there might be an additional problem with the over-optimizers also forcing combat in situations where the rest of the party doesn't feel like an aggressive response is warranted. That's a whole different issue, but let's see if we can address the mechanical issue first.</blockquote>

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