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<blockquote data-quote="Ryujin" data-source="post: 4907648" data-attributes="member: 27897">Where to start, where to start...... This is coming from a &quot;talk monkey&quot; who, while he doesn't have Beguiling tongue, he does have the Bardic ritual Glib Limerick and a pretty good Charisma.So the Warlock gets in one good diplomacy roll. So what? That means that the party will get to speak without being filled full of holes. That's assuming that 32 is a high enough roll that it will still succeed after you take off the -10 for how they react to people trying to get past their guardpost.A single roll is never going to get a party past a well guarded outpost. It doesn't matter if it's steatlh or diplomacy; you simply don't completely 'disarm' the opposition by making one skill roll. That's the reason for the skill challenge system. As Sgt Shock says, Orcs likely don't respect sugary words. Bluster and strength of sword arm are likely of much more use. That means bluff, intimidate, and downright beating on them are the best ways to go. You might give one success for diplomacy, like I said to keep from getting arrowed to pieces, but then they'd have to switch skills.Then you consider role play. Are the statements made by the characters the sort of thing that you think would be effective, or are they digging their own graves every time that they open their traps? Give bonuses or penalties based on the ideas that they have and if one player has a particularly good one, perhaps give a little bonus experience.It's a perfect opportunity for a free-form skill challenge. Make it just as tough as the combat is likely to be, or it's too easy a success. If they succeed, then give them the experience that they would have gained by killing their opponents. Let them have some fun with it, but don't make it easy.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ryujin, post: 4907648, member: 27897"] Where to start, where to start...... This is coming from a "talk monkey" who, while he doesn't have Beguiling tongue, he does have the Bardic ritual Glib Limerick and a pretty good Charisma. So the Warlock gets in one good diplomacy roll. So what? That means that the party will get to speak without being filled full of holes. That's assuming that 32 is a high enough roll that it will still succeed after you take off the -10 for how they react to people trying to get past their guardpost. A single roll is never going to get a party past a well guarded outpost. It doesn't matter if it's steatlh or diplomacy; you simply don't completely 'disarm' the opposition by making one skill roll. That's the reason for the skill challenge system. As Sgt Shock says, Orcs likely don't respect sugary words. Bluster and strength of sword arm are likely of much more use. That means bluff, intimidate, and downright beating on them are the best ways to go. You might give one success for diplomacy, like I said to keep from getting arrowed to pieces, but then they'd have to switch skills. Then you consider role play. Are the statements made by the characters the sort of thing that you think would be effective, or are they digging their own graves every time that they open their traps? Give bonuses or penalties based on the ideas that they have and if one player has a particularly good one, perhaps give a little bonus experience. It's a perfect opportunity for a free-form skill challenge. Make it just as tough as the combat is likely to be, or it's too easy a success. If they succeed, then give them the experience that they would have gained by killing their opponents. Let them have some fun with it, but don't make it easy. [/QUOTE]

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