Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
Character Builds & Optimization
Death Before Dishonor: A Knight's Guide (By lorduskblade)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Veep" data-source="post: 6707925" data-attributes="member: 6793297"><p style="text-align: center"><span style="font-size: 18px"><strong>Ability Scores: The Demands of Honor</strong></span></p> <p style="text-align: center"><span style="font-size: 18px"></span></p><p>A very interesting feature of the Knight's dependence on basic attacks is that given the advent of the Melee Training feat, you could potentially key most of your attack rolls off of any of the six ability scores. However, one thing is constant, and that is that <span style="color: #0000ff"><strong>Constitution</strong></span> will usually be good on a Knight (<strong>13-18 before racial adjustments</strong>), since healing surges are pretty important to a Defender and you have some secondary effects that like this ability score.</p><p></p><p>A Knight is based off of <span style="color: #00ccff"><strong>Strength</strong></span> by default, and that will be the best option for the majority of the members of the class (<strong>16-18 before racial adjustments</strong>). That said, if you can find a way to gain some sort of benefit from using another ability score that compensates the resources you'd spend to make the ability score switch, go ahead and do it.</p><p></p><p>Of course, regardless of the build, you should also pay a bit of lip service to <strong>Wisdom</strong> or <strong>Charisma</strong> for Will defense, as well as <strong>Dexterity </strong>for initiative (at least a <strong>10-14 before racial adjustments</strong>). Apart from that, all bets are off.</p><p></p><p><strong>Races: Born to Honor</strong></p><p></p><p>As I mentioned above, the ability to make your basic attacks essentially key off of any ability score means that it's pretty hard to be outright <span style="color: #ff0000"><strong>terrible</strong></span> at the business of being a Knight. That said, there are definitely races that have an advantage at this sort of thing.</p><p></p><p><strong>Races - Player's Handbook</strong></p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="color: #00ccff">Dragonborn</span></strong> - The Strength bonus is appreciated by most Knights, and Charisma can help your Will defense. It also provides a sweet bonus to hit when bloodied and a reason to keep your Con high (more surge value). While Dragon Breath isn't quite as amazing for you as it is for a classical Fighter, it's not bad either. A good choice.</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00ccff">Dwarf</span></strong> - Unsurprisingly, Dwarves make amazing Knights. They have both the primary and the secondary for the classic build, have an always-on way to resist the Knight's typical weakness (forced movement), and to boot can second wind as a minor. A dominant racial choice.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff"><strong>Eladrin</strong></span> - While the stats don't match up well with the default Knight (Dexterity is a tertiary at best, and Intelligence doesn't even show up on your radar because of its redundancy with the former), you can force a square peg in a round hole by taking Swordmage Multiclass for Intelligent Blademaster, and it has some racial support in its favor, which does count for something.</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: #0000ff">Elf</span></strong> - Dexterity and Wisdom are OK secondaries to have, and a do-over on one attack plus higher-than-average base speed make this a surprisingly good choice for this sort of thing.</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00ccff">Half-Elf</span></strong> - While it doesn't match up all that great with the classical way to build a Knight, that's OK, because it has the ability to poach an At-Will from another class that can be used as a basic attack and use that instead, opening up plenty of avenues to be awesome at Defending.</p><p></p><p><strong>Halfling</strong> - Being short sucks for your weapon options, but the secondaries are all right, and your speed is the same as most other characters, and you can make an opponent reroll a hit against you. Pretty solid.</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00ccff">Human</span></strong> - While you only get one bump, you get it wherever you want it, and extra defenses, feats, and skills are very good to have (Heroic Effort isn't half bad, either). A classical choice, and a good one at that.</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00ccff">Tiefling</span></strong> - Another not-exactly-typical candidate, the reason why it's ranked this highly is because it has the ability to get a full MBA keying off of Charisma (Paladin Multiclass and the Wrath of the Crimson Legion feat), and it has a nice array of racial tricks to make this all worth your while.</p><p> </p><p></p><p><strong>Races - Player's Handbook 2</strong></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: #800080"><strong>Deva</strong></span> - Intelligence and Wisdom are bad ability scores to have, though Memory of a Thousand Lifetimes makes it at least a little better.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #800080"><strong>Gnome</strong></span> - Intelligence and Charisma do little for you by default, and you're Small and slow as insult to injury. About as bad as you can get for this class.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #00ccff"><strong>Goliath</strong></span> - Strength and Constitution are your ideal stats for most builds, and the ability to conjure up some resist all is awesome, too. A great choice.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #00ccff"><strong>Half-Orc</strong></span> - Strength and Dexterity help out a lot, and THP once you hit Bloodied and a bit of extra damage once per encounter have their uses as well. An excellent candidate.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #00ccff"><strong>Shifter, Longtooth</strong></span> - Strength and Wisdom work out all right, and the ability to regenerate when you're banged up is amazing. An awesome race.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff"><strong>Shifter, Razorclaw</strong></span> - Dexterity and Wisdom are respectable secondaries, and extra defense while bloodied is all right, too.</p><p> </p><p></p><p><strong>Races - Player's Handbook 3</strong></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: #0000ff"><strong>Githzerai</strong></span> - Some decent ability scores, and a bonus to initiative and some solid feat support helps here, too.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #00ccff"><strong>Minotaur</strong></span> - Gets the money pair of ability scores, grabs an extra surge, and has some "how dare you drop me" retribution. Sounds good to me.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #800080"><strong>Shardmind</strong></span> - Mental stats aren't your usual thing, and that's pretty much all this race does. Not the greatest idea.</p><p></p><p><span style="color: #0000ff"><strong>Wilden</strong></span> - Good secondaries, and the racial power of at least one aspect is definitely up your alley. A fairly good choice overall.</p><p> </p><p></p><p><strong>Races - Other Rulebooks</strong></p><p> </p><p><strong>Bladeling (MOTP)</strong> - Decent secondaries, but being utterly unsupported brings it down a notch.</p><p></p><p><strong>Changeling (EPG)</strong> - OK ability scores, and an OK racial ability. Could be worse.</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: #0000ff">Drow</span> (FRPG)</strong> - The secondaries are solid, and Cloud of Darkness can make for quite a racial power for you. A surprisingly good choice.</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00ccff">Genasi</span> (FRPG)</strong> - Having Strength makes up for Intelligence's limited use, and the racial powers can be a potential gold mine. A great choice.</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: #800080">Kalashtar</span> (EPG)</strong> - Hooray for a Knight with a purely mental focus! ...Or not.</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00ccff">Mul</span> (DSCS)</strong> - Given that they have Dwarf stats and can take Dwarf feat support, their being great at this sort of thing is only natural.</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00ccff">Revenant</span> (HoS)</strong> - Given the fact that they can hop on the Half-Elf trick-snatching bandwagon as well as bring their own toughness-related support to the table, this is definitely a great choice for a Knight.</p><p></p><p><strong>Shade (HoS)</strong> - Decent ability bonuses and a free trained skill (not that you're likely to get a lot of mileage from it), but losing a surge for no good reason hurts.</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00ccff">Thri-Kreen</span> (DSCS)</strong> - Strength and Dexterity work out just fine, as does the ability to quick-swap and a minor action encounter attack. A very good choice.</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: #0000ff">Vryloka</span> (HoS)</strong> - The dip in surge value while bloodied hurts its stock, but this is still a pretty good racial choice.</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: #00ccff">Warforged</span> (EPG)</strong> - Excuse the pun, but this race was quite literally made to do this. Great ability scores, great racial features, great racial power. Good stuff all around.</p><p> </p><p></p><p><strong>Races - Dragon Magazine</strong></p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="color: #0000ff">Gnoll</span> (D 367)</strong> - A nice and aggressive brand of Knight, it gets meaner when bloodied and promotes charging, which is nice to have.</p><p></p><p><strong>Shadar-Kai (D 372)</strong> - Though the teleport is nice, the ability scores are kinda marginal, and not much else really wows me here.</p><p> </p><p></p><p><strong>Races - Monster Manuals</strong></p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="color: #00ccff">Bugbear</span> (MM)</strong> - Strength, Dexterity, and oversized on top. Great if you can get away with it.</p><p></p><p><strong>Bullywug (MM 2)</strong> - The ability scores are OK, but that's about where it ends, though Stench could be useful against the rare enemy that does spend surges.</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: #800080">Doppelganger</span> (MM)</strong> - Basically a changeling, with worse ability score options. A hard sell.</p><p></p><p><strong>Duergar (MM 2)</strong> - Hey, look, it's the Dwarf, minus most of the stuff that makes him awesome! Average at best.</p><p></p><p><strong>Githyanki (MM)</strong> - +2 to Constitution and initiative is good, but the rest is not all that.</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: #800080">Goblin</span> (MM)</strong> - Being small blows, and the racial power isn't really that great. I wouldn't.</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: #0000ff">Hobgoblin</span> (MM)</strong> - Constitution and Charisma are solid, and the racial utility is pretty darn good. A surprisingly good choice.</p><p></p><p><strong>Kenku (MM 2)</strong> - The cooperation abilities make this an at least respectable choice.</p><p></p><p><strong>Kobold (MM)</strong> - I don't feel shifting as a minor action is as exploitable on a Knight as it is on other classes, and being Small sucks, though at least it has good secondaries. Could be better, but it could also certainly be worse.</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: #0000ff">Orc</span> (MM)</strong> - The best ability scores, and some self-healing. Not bad at all.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Veep, post: 6707925, member: 6793297"] [CENTER][SIZE=5][b]Ability Scores: The Demands of Honor[/b] [/SIZE][/CENTER] A very interesting feature of the Knight's dependence on basic attacks is that given the advent of the Melee Training feat, you could potentially key most of your attack rolls off of any of the six ability scores. However, one thing is constant, and that is that [COLOR=#0000ff][b]Constitution[/b][/COLOR] will usually be good on a Knight ([b]13-18 before racial adjustments[/b]), since healing surges are pretty important to a Defender and you have some secondary effects that like this ability score. A Knight is based off of [COLOR=#00ccff][b]Strength[/b][/COLOR] by default, and that will be the best option for the majority of the members of the class ([b]16-18 before racial adjustments[/b]). That said, if you can find a way to gain some sort of benefit from using another ability score that compensates the resources you'd spend to make the ability score switch, go ahead and do it. Of course, regardless of the build, you should also pay a bit of lip service to [b]Wisdom[/b] or [b]Charisma[/b] for Will defense, as well as [b]Dexterity [/b]for initiative (at least a [b]10-14 before racial adjustments[/b]). Apart from that, all bets are off. [b]Races: Born to Honor[/b] As I mentioned above, the ability to make your basic attacks essentially key off of any ability score means that it's pretty hard to be outright [COLOR=#ff0000][b]terrible[/b][/COLOR] at the business of being a Knight. That said, there are definitely races that have an advantage at this sort of thing. [b]Races - Player's Handbook[/b] [b][COLOR=#00ccff]Dragonborn[/COLOR][/b] - The Strength bonus is appreciated by most Knights, and Charisma can help your Will defense. It also provides a sweet bonus to hit when bloodied and a reason to keep your Con high (more surge value). While Dragon Breath isn't quite as amazing for you as it is for a classical Fighter, it's not bad either. A good choice. [b][COLOR=#00ccff]Dwarf[/COLOR][/b] - Unsurprisingly, Dwarves make amazing Knights. They have both the primary and the secondary for the classic build, have an always-on way to resist the Knight's typical weakness (forced movement), and to boot can second wind as a minor. A dominant racial choice. [COLOR=#0000ff][b]Eladrin[/b][/COLOR] - While the stats don't match up well with the default Knight (Dexterity is a tertiary at best, and Intelligence doesn't even show up on your radar because of its redundancy with the former), you can force a square peg in a round hole by taking Swordmage Multiclass for Intelligent Blademaster, and it has some racial support in its favor, which does count for something. [b][COLOR=#0000ff]Elf[/COLOR][/b] - Dexterity and Wisdom are OK secondaries to have, and a do-over on one attack plus higher-than-average base speed make this a surprisingly good choice for this sort of thing. [b][COLOR=#00ccff]Half-Elf[/COLOR][/b] - While it doesn't match up all that great with the classical way to build a Knight, that's OK, because it has the ability to poach an At-Will from another class that can be used as a basic attack and use that instead, opening up plenty of avenues to be awesome at Defending. [b]Halfling[/b] - Being short sucks for your weapon options, but the secondaries are all right, and your speed is the same as most other characters, and you can make an opponent reroll a hit against you. Pretty solid. [b][COLOR=#00ccff]Human[/COLOR][/b] - While you only get one bump, you get it wherever you want it, and extra defenses, feats, and skills are very good to have (Heroic Effort isn't half bad, either). A classical choice, and a good one at that. [b][COLOR=#00ccff]Tiefling[/COLOR][/b] - Another not-exactly-typical candidate, the reason why it's ranked this highly is because it has the ability to get a full MBA keying off of Charisma (Paladin Multiclass and the Wrath of the Crimson Legion feat), and it has a nice array of racial tricks to make this all worth your while. [b]Races - Player's Handbook 2[/b] [COLOR=#800080][b]Deva[/b][/COLOR] - Intelligence and Wisdom are bad ability scores to have, though Memory of a Thousand Lifetimes makes it at least a little better. [COLOR=#800080][b]Gnome[/b][/COLOR] - Intelligence and Charisma do little for you by default, and you're Small and slow as insult to injury. About as bad as you can get for this class. [COLOR=#00ccff][b]Goliath[/b][/COLOR] - Strength and Constitution are your ideal stats for most builds, and the ability to conjure up some resist all is awesome, too. A great choice. [COLOR=#00ccff][b]Half-Orc[/b][/COLOR] - Strength and Dexterity help out a lot, and THP once you hit Bloodied and a bit of extra damage once per encounter have their uses as well. An excellent candidate. [COLOR=#00ccff][b]Shifter, Longtooth[/b][/COLOR] - Strength and Wisdom work out all right, and the ability to regenerate when you're banged up is amazing. An awesome race. [COLOR=#0000ff][b]Shifter, Razorclaw[/b][/COLOR] - Dexterity and Wisdom are respectable secondaries, and extra defense while bloodied is all right, too. [b]Races - Player's Handbook 3[/b] [COLOR=#0000ff][b]Githzerai[/b][/COLOR] - Some decent ability scores, and a bonus to initiative and some solid feat support helps here, too. [COLOR=#00ccff][b]Minotaur[/b][/COLOR] - Gets the money pair of ability scores, grabs an extra surge, and has some "how dare you drop me" retribution. Sounds good to me. [COLOR=#800080][b]Shardmind[/b][/COLOR] - Mental stats aren't your usual thing, and that's pretty much all this race does. Not the greatest idea. [COLOR=#0000ff][b]Wilden[/b][/COLOR] - Good secondaries, and the racial power of at least one aspect is definitely up your alley. A fairly good choice overall. [b]Races - Other Rulebooks[/b] [b]Bladeling (MOTP)[/b] - Decent secondaries, but being utterly unsupported brings it down a notch. [b]Changeling (EPG)[/b] - OK ability scores, and an OK racial ability. Could be worse. [b][COLOR=#0000ff]Drow[/COLOR] (FRPG)[/b] - The secondaries are solid, and Cloud of Darkness can make for quite a racial power for you. A surprisingly good choice. [b][COLOR=#00ccff]Genasi[/COLOR] (FRPG)[/b] - Having Strength makes up for Intelligence's limited use, and the racial powers can be a potential gold mine. A great choice. [b][COLOR=#800080]Kalashtar[/COLOR] (EPG)[/b] - Hooray for a Knight with a purely mental focus! ...Or not. [b][COLOR=#00ccff]Mul[/COLOR] (DSCS)[/b] - Given that they have Dwarf stats and can take Dwarf feat support, their being great at this sort of thing is only natural. [b][COLOR=#00ccff]Revenant[/COLOR] (HoS)[/b] - Given the fact that they can hop on the Half-Elf trick-snatching bandwagon as well as bring their own toughness-related support to the table, this is definitely a great choice for a Knight. [b]Shade (HoS)[/b] - Decent ability bonuses and a free trained skill (not that you're likely to get a lot of mileage from it), but losing a surge for no good reason hurts. [b][COLOR=#00ccff]Thri-Kreen[/COLOR] (DSCS)[/b] - Strength and Dexterity work out just fine, as does the ability to quick-swap and a minor action encounter attack. A very good choice. [b][COLOR=#0000ff]Vryloka[/COLOR] (HoS)[/b] - The dip in surge value while bloodied hurts its stock, but this is still a pretty good racial choice. [b][COLOR=#00ccff]Warforged[/COLOR] (EPG)[/b] - Excuse the pun, but this race was quite literally made to do this. Great ability scores, great racial features, great racial power. Good stuff all around. [b]Races - Dragon Magazine[/b] [b][COLOR=#0000ff]Gnoll[/COLOR] (D 367)[/b] - A nice and aggressive brand of Knight, it gets meaner when bloodied and promotes charging, which is nice to have. [b]Shadar-Kai (D 372)[/b] - Though the teleport is nice, the ability scores are kinda marginal, and not much else really wows me here. [b]Races - Monster Manuals[/b] [b][COLOR=#00ccff]Bugbear[/COLOR] (MM)[/b] - Strength, Dexterity, and oversized on top. Great if you can get away with it. [b]Bullywug (MM 2)[/b] - The ability scores are OK, but that's about where it ends, though Stench could be useful against the rare enemy that does spend surges. [b][COLOR=#800080]Doppelganger[/COLOR] (MM)[/b] - Basically a changeling, with worse ability score options. A hard sell. [b]Duergar (MM 2)[/b] - Hey, look, it's the Dwarf, minus most of the stuff that makes him awesome! Average at best. [b]Githyanki (MM)[/b] - +2 to Constitution and initiative is good, but the rest is not all that. [b][COLOR=#800080]Goblin[/COLOR] (MM)[/b] - Being small blows, and the racial power isn't really that great. I wouldn't. [b][COLOR=#0000ff]Hobgoblin[/COLOR] (MM)[/b] - Constitution and Charisma are solid, and the racial utility is pretty darn good. A surprisingly good choice. [b]Kenku (MM 2)[/b] - The cooperation abilities make this an at least respectable choice. [b]Kobold (MM)[/b] - I don't feel shifting as a minor action is as exploitable on a Knight as it is on other classes, and being Small sucks, though at least it has good secondaries. Could be better, but it could also certainly be worse. [b][COLOR=#0000ff]Orc[/COLOR] (MM)[/b] - The best ability scores, and some self-healing. Not bad at all. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
Character Builds & Optimization
Death Before Dishonor: A Knight's Guide (By lorduskblade)
Top