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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jgsugden" data-source="post: 6862331" data-attributes="member: 2629">I find these types of discussions are really asking the wrong question.  They ask how to make death more significant when they really should be asking how they can challenge PCs better when death isn't as likely as in earlier editions.  After all, are you really relishing the idea of looking at your players' faces as their characters die?  Or do you really just want to provide them with more interesting challenges with real stakes?  There is a reason why death is much less likely.After all, your PCs are heroes.  If everything is a life and death struggle for them, they don't feel like heroes - they might just feel like victims.  Is that fun?You're better off challenging them in other ways.  Give the PCs challenges that they have to resolve during their combat scenarios rather than just giving them deadly encounter after deadly encounter.  Here is an example of a series of events where midlevel PCs have opportunities to fail even if PC death is very unlikely.1.) The PCs are at their favorite tavern when they notice a friend being seduced by a mysterious stranger.  The friend leaves and the PCs are prompted to follow - and discover that they mysterious stranger is a vampire feeding off of their friend in an alley nearby - surrounded by charmed townsfolk minions.  The PCs need to stop the vampire fast.  How do they do it without killing the poor mind controlled people of the town?2.) The vampire is slain and turns to mist.  It flows through a crack in the wall and enters the home of a rival group of PCs.  Do the PCs break in to follow it?  If so, do the Rival PCs consider it an attack?  Or do they help in the hunt for the Vampire? Or are they in league with the vampire?   The fight might end when diplomacy, rather than violence, dictates.  Or maybe they need to knock the rival PCs out, too...3.) The PCs discover that the vampire has escaped into a pipe system that feeds into the sewars.  There is only one being in town that could track a vampire through the sewars - the leader of the local Thieves' Guild - a Wererat.  The PCs have tangled with his forces before and he is not going to be willing to help... unless the PCs force him, they charm him, or they come up with some other tactic.  However, before they can do any of that, they need to get to him without him fleeing... Do they use stealth, speed or some other tactic?  4.) The charmed Wererat guides the PCs to an old abandoned mansion outside the town walls.  There, they encounter more townsfolk minions that are patrolling the grounds for their master.  The PCs need to get past them to get to the vampire - which means either stealth to avoid detection, or ways to take them down that do not involve killing them.  And they have to do it while avoiding traps the vampire has set, etc...5.) After 'Sleeping' the townsfolk the PCs enter the lair and discover that the vampire isn't just a wandering monster... it is there for a reason.  It has been sent by a powerful bad guy to do something.  However, as soon as it becomes aware that the PCs are there, it (and its remaining minions) begins to race around the mansion destroying the evidence of what it is there to do.  The monster doesn't even fight back... the only thought it has is to destroy the evidence.  Can the PCs save enough evidence to piece together the plot?  6.) After killing it again, the PCs follow the vampire mist to the coffin deep in a subbasement and prepare to end the threat permanently - only to discover there is a powerful trap!  If they set it off, the entire house begins to collapse.  The PCs need to race out of the house before it collapses on them.  However, undead spirits are rising to block their path.  Further, If the PCs don't kill the spirits as the heroes flee the collapsing building, the spirits will likely get to the town and attack it.  If they do stop to fight, they risk the house collapsing on them and sealing them in the rubble while the monsters move through it and get to an unprotected town.  Oh, and did they gather the evidence before they set off the trap?  If not, they need to gather what they can while the walls collapse around them.7.) The PCs collect their evidence and discover that the evil mastermind is a lich in a tower far away.  However, much remains unclear about his plan and the PCs would be well served not to go to the tower with so little information.  The lich is a known associate of an Ancient Dragon (which is vastly more powerful than the PCs) that lives in the Lonely Mountain and there are clues that the dragon might know useful information.  Do the PCs go visit the powerful dragon and ask it questions about the lich?  If so, they find a very bored dragon.  The PCs off tribute in exchange for the answers they seek... but the dragon decides that it would rather amuse itself by playing with the adventurers.  The PCs are put through their paces as they need to find a way to amuse the dragon enough to persuade it to deliver the information - the dragon will likely kick them out before they die, but it won't give them the information they seek unless it is sufficiently amused before they are shown the door.  How would this play out differently for an Ancient Red, Brass, Copper or Green dragon?PCs might never feel like they're in risk of dying in any of these 'battles', but they can feel challenged.  I think that is what you really want.</blockquote>

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