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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Death of Simulation?
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 3736872" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>Simulationists assume that level per se never actually breaks the fourth wall (well, breaks it in reverse). That is to say, the assumption is that level exists as a game mechanic, but that the inhabitants of the world don't actually know anything about hit dice, character level, etc.</p><p></p><p>Part of the humor of 'Order of the Stick' is that the story universe not only works according to game mechanics, but that the inhabitants of the story are aware of the mechanics. </p><p></p><p>In third edition, encounters exist at this level as well. Encounters can exist as a game mechanic (for assigning XP) without entering into the game universe. But, giving a creature abilities on a 'per encounter' basis potentially breaks that wall between the game and the meta-game. In the worst case, 'encounter' is defined in a gamist way, as the duration that a game element stays on the board. It's still the same encounter as long as we are still at the scenario location keyed #13. It's still the same encounter as long as the story is in chapter 5. It's still the same encounter as long as this is scene 3 in the adventure. In the best case, 'encounter' is defined as something between rest periods (lets say 10 minutes), and after some concrete period of 10 minutes you refresh your abilities. But even this presents potential problems. Suppose you have level 1 ability X and level 1 ability Y. Depending on the mechanics, you could get in a situation where each encounter you can use ability X and ability Y. But suppose you use X and now want to use X again? Both are supposed to be equally hard, why can't you use X rather than Y? There are strong gamist reasons for wanting to force the player to use Y rather than X, whereas a simulationist would (barring some in game world explanation like Vancian magic) want to say that the character ought to be able to use X.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 3736872, member: 4937"] Simulationists assume that level per se never actually breaks the fourth wall (well, breaks it in reverse). That is to say, the assumption is that level exists as a game mechanic, but that the inhabitants of the world don't actually know anything about hit dice, character level, etc. Part of the humor of 'Order of the Stick' is that the story universe not only works according to game mechanics, but that the inhabitants of the story are aware of the mechanics. In third edition, encounters exist at this level as well. Encounters can exist as a game mechanic (for assigning XP) without entering into the game universe. But, giving a creature abilities on a 'per encounter' basis potentially breaks that wall between the game and the meta-game. In the worst case, 'encounter' is defined in a gamist way, as the duration that a game element stays on the board. It's still the same encounter as long as we are still at the scenario location keyed #13. It's still the same encounter as long as the story is in chapter 5. It's still the same encounter as long as this is scene 3 in the adventure. In the best case, 'encounter' is defined as something between rest periods (lets say 10 minutes), and after some concrete period of 10 minutes you refresh your abilities. But even this presents potential problems. Suppose you have level 1 ability X and level 1 ability Y. Depending on the mechanics, you could get in a situation where each encounter you can use ability X and ability Y. But suppose you use X and now want to use X again? Both are supposed to be equally hard, why can't you use X rather than Y? There are strong gamist reasons for wanting to force the player to use Y rather than X, whereas a simulationist would (barring some in game world explanation like Vancian magic) want to say that the character ought to be able to use X. [/QUOTE]
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