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Community
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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Death of Simulation?
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<blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 3737215" data-attributes="member: 5143"><p>I believe that in 4e adventures, they will be written up as "one encounter". It will explicitly say that when you get into battle with one, the rest will all come. That's what I got from the article.</p><p></p><p>As for the simulationist thing, I agree that dragon bones warding players off depend purely on their mindset. If you are running in a "consistent and logical world" then the players should be able to use all sorts of logic in order to figure out what the bones mean:</p><p></p><p>Well, in this world it is a known fact that some people are much, much better at fighting than other people(i.e. level 10 fighters are WAY better than level 1 warriors). We are level 5(which, in a simulationist system the players wouldn't know. However, they WOULD know that orcs, goblins, and the like are REALLY easy for them to beat even though the guards in town have a hard time beating them). So, the bones in front of the cave could be non-combatants who were scooped up by the dragon and couldn't fight back, 1st level warrior guards who tried to kill the dragon and failed, or they could be the heroes of forgotten ages who tried to kill the dragon thousands of years ago. Plus, if tales are told of the weak dragons (the ones that are CR 4 and the like) then it's possible the PCs have heard about dragons much easier to kill.</p><p></p><p>Unfortunately, in the above example, there is no way to know for sure. Using even a simulationist stance. That's kind of the problem with the simulationist stance in D&D. In the real world people were afraid that there might be dragons in a cave because NO ONE could defeat them. Think about it, it didn't matter how good you were with a sword, it's 20 feet long and can kill you in one bite or set fire to you immediately. In that sort of world, sure...you see signs of a dragon and you DON'T GO IN. However, in the D&D world levels and classes change all that. It's now a consistent fact that as you get more experience fighting monsters you go from a lowly villager to someone capable of taking the full force of a ancient dragons breath 2 or 3 times without dying and who can take on hundreds or thousands of orcs by himself without even getting hurt.</p><p></p><p>As long as that fact remains it has to become PART of the simulation. So, players have to know that they might be capable of taking on an enemy way too poweful for other people. Otherwise they'd be deathly afraid of any monster above CR 3 no matter what level they get to. That doesn't make for a very fun game("There is a BEHOLDER in that cave? I'm not going down there! Those things can disintegrate you! Sure, I survived the last 25 times someone tried to disintegrate me...but THIS time I might die.")</p><p></p><p>As for the "per encounter" abilities. I don't see any problem with them. Like anything it's how you describe them. I can see it already being described as a "partial vancian system". Some spells are so difficult to cast that you need an hour to prepare them and can only do so after 8 hours of rest. Some are easier to cast and can be prepared in about 30 seconds, but you need to be at peace and relax for the 30 seconds. Your mind can't be worrying about dying or your friends dying or having loud noises around. However, in those 30 seconds you can prepare all of you "easier" spells. This essentially limits them to "per encounter".</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Majoru Oakheart, post: 3737215, member: 5143"] I believe that in 4e adventures, they will be written up as "one encounter". It will explicitly say that when you get into battle with one, the rest will all come. That's what I got from the article. As for the simulationist thing, I agree that dragon bones warding players off depend purely on their mindset. If you are running in a "consistent and logical world" then the players should be able to use all sorts of logic in order to figure out what the bones mean: Well, in this world it is a known fact that some people are much, much better at fighting than other people(i.e. level 10 fighters are WAY better than level 1 warriors). We are level 5(which, in a simulationist system the players wouldn't know. However, they WOULD know that orcs, goblins, and the like are REALLY easy for them to beat even though the guards in town have a hard time beating them). So, the bones in front of the cave could be non-combatants who were scooped up by the dragon and couldn't fight back, 1st level warrior guards who tried to kill the dragon and failed, or they could be the heroes of forgotten ages who tried to kill the dragon thousands of years ago. Plus, if tales are told of the weak dragons (the ones that are CR 4 and the like) then it's possible the PCs have heard about dragons much easier to kill. Unfortunately, in the above example, there is no way to know for sure. Using even a simulationist stance. That's kind of the problem with the simulationist stance in D&D. In the real world people were afraid that there might be dragons in a cave because NO ONE could defeat them. Think about it, it didn't matter how good you were with a sword, it's 20 feet long and can kill you in one bite or set fire to you immediately. In that sort of world, sure...you see signs of a dragon and you DON'T GO IN. However, in the D&D world levels and classes change all that. It's now a consistent fact that as you get more experience fighting monsters you go from a lowly villager to someone capable of taking the full force of a ancient dragons breath 2 or 3 times without dying and who can take on hundreds or thousands of orcs by himself without even getting hurt. As long as that fact remains it has to become PART of the simulation. So, players have to know that they might be capable of taking on an enemy way too poweful for other people. Otherwise they'd be deathly afraid of any monster above CR 3 no matter what level they get to. That doesn't make for a very fun game("There is a BEHOLDER in that cave? I'm not going down there! Those things can disintegrate you! Sure, I survived the last 25 times someone tried to disintegrate me...but THIS time I might die.") As for the "per encounter" abilities. I don't see any problem with them. Like anything it's how you describe them. I can see it already being described as a "partial vancian system". Some spells are so difficult to cast that you need an hour to prepare them and can only do so after 8 hours of rest. Some are easier to cast and can be prepared in about 30 seconds, but you need to be at peace and relax for the 30 seconds. Your mind can't be worrying about dying or your friends dying or having loud noises around. However, in those 30 seconds you can prepare all of you "easier" spells. This essentially limits them to "per encounter". [/QUOTE]
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Death of Simulation?
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