Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Death of the LGS
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Korgoth" data-source="post: 4336148" data-attributes="member: 49613"><p>gg: Long post warning. A bit rantish, but not really... and I wish you all the best in your business endeavors.</p><p></p><p>The hobby is in a weird place right now. When I got into gaming, D&D was sold at Toys 'R Us. That's a place where kids (at the time, anyway... I don't know what they're like anymore) used to browse for cool stuff. Or I did anyway. And I got into gaming through my friends of similar age. Although I didn't really read comics (except Star Wars sometimes), comics were sold at the gas station. If there were comic/game stores, I didn't even know they existed. I did learn of them eventually, however.</p><p></p><p>Now, you do at least have D&D stuff sold at the local corporate book store, but I don't see kids browsing in those aisles. Just other people about my age (mid 30s).</p><p></p><p>So how do the next generation of gamers learn about D&D? And if they do learn about it, they certainly can't start with the materials available now. I started with the Moldvay box. That book was only 64 pages and that's still a bit tough even on a precocious 8 year old. The new ones? Forget it.</p><p></p><p>And, no offense OP, but you say that if we support the FLGS, somehow that will stop 5E and 6E from being total crapola? I don't see that making any difference. D&D is no longer in the hands of gamers. We're back to a Lorraine Williams scenario. Supporting (or not) the FLGS won't make any difference.</p><p></p><p>Also, many LGSs are not the Friendly, or if they are friendly, they're not that smart. I remember going in to the largest, most storied FLGS in my town asking about H1 (KoTS) before it came out. This was like a few weeks or a month before release. And they didn't know what I was talking about. Many of these places are circling the drain of customer service in one way or another. That suggests to me that the whole 'industry' of the LGS is falling apart.</p><p></p><p>Beyond that... how can you compete with the online boys? They give 40% or 45% off most stuff and they bring it to your house. The latter is an added bonus because it probably costs me $4+ to take a trip to the LGS. So just add 5 bucks to the price of everything. And since most trips there are wasted anyway... see above.</p><p></p><p>The bottom line is, without a viable business model you're bascially asking for charity. You're saying that if consumers artifically pump up your business by paying more than they otherwise would, you'll stay in business and certain intangibles will accrue to the hobby as a whole. Even if that's true (and it may not be... I might just lay out extra cash so that when you do go under you have a softer cushion), I personally don't get a lot out of it, as I'll explain.</p><p></p><p>See, nowadays I have to ask: what is the hobby "industry" to me? I like OD&D, Classic Traveller, a few other odds and ends (maybe some T&T, some CoC, some Encounter Critical). What do I need from the "industry"? For WOTC to sell me a version of D&D that's not as good as the stuff I've already got? For Mungoose to sell me a munged and goosed version of Traveller when I already have the golden classics? I can get along fine without the industry.</p><p></p><p>Maybe it will all fall apart and game design will go back to the garage. Fine by me. S. John Ross could have produced Encounter Critical in his garage (God bless him!) and my print copy is from Lulu. OD&D, the single best role playing game product ever, is quite obviously a garage product. Why should I support the "industry", the FLGS or any of the slick, modern husks of games that go with them? What have they done for me? Maybe if it goes back to the garage (or the internet), the current high-entry cost, glossy, over produced products will go away and we'll be back to cheap, quirky fan efforts that might just charm their way back to popularity.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Korgoth, post: 4336148, member: 49613"] gg: Long post warning. A bit rantish, but not really... and I wish you all the best in your business endeavors. The hobby is in a weird place right now. When I got into gaming, D&D was sold at Toys 'R Us. That's a place where kids (at the time, anyway... I don't know what they're like anymore) used to browse for cool stuff. Or I did anyway. And I got into gaming through my friends of similar age. Although I didn't really read comics (except Star Wars sometimes), comics were sold at the gas station. If there were comic/game stores, I didn't even know they existed. I did learn of them eventually, however. Now, you do at least have D&D stuff sold at the local corporate book store, but I don't see kids browsing in those aisles. Just other people about my age (mid 30s). So how do the next generation of gamers learn about D&D? And if they do learn about it, they certainly can't start with the materials available now. I started with the Moldvay box. That book was only 64 pages and that's still a bit tough even on a precocious 8 year old. The new ones? Forget it. And, no offense OP, but you say that if we support the FLGS, somehow that will stop 5E and 6E from being total crapola? I don't see that making any difference. D&D is no longer in the hands of gamers. We're back to a Lorraine Williams scenario. Supporting (or not) the FLGS won't make any difference. Also, many LGSs are not the Friendly, or if they are friendly, they're not that smart. I remember going in to the largest, most storied FLGS in my town asking about H1 (KoTS) before it came out. This was like a few weeks or a month before release. And they didn't know what I was talking about. Many of these places are circling the drain of customer service in one way or another. That suggests to me that the whole 'industry' of the LGS is falling apart. Beyond that... how can you compete with the online boys? They give 40% or 45% off most stuff and they bring it to your house. The latter is an added bonus because it probably costs me $4+ to take a trip to the LGS. So just add 5 bucks to the price of everything. And since most trips there are wasted anyway... see above. The bottom line is, without a viable business model you're bascially asking for charity. You're saying that if consumers artifically pump up your business by paying more than they otherwise would, you'll stay in business and certain intangibles will accrue to the hobby as a whole. Even if that's true (and it may not be... I might just lay out extra cash so that when you do go under you have a softer cushion), I personally don't get a lot out of it, as I'll explain. See, nowadays I have to ask: what is the hobby "industry" to me? I like OD&D, Classic Traveller, a few other odds and ends (maybe some T&T, some CoC, some Encounter Critical). What do I need from the "industry"? For WOTC to sell me a version of D&D that's not as good as the stuff I've already got? For Mungoose to sell me a munged and goosed version of Traveller when I already have the golden classics? I can get along fine without the industry. Maybe it will all fall apart and game design will go back to the garage. Fine by me. S. John Ross could have produced Encounter Critical in his garage (God bless him!) and my print copy is from Lulu. OD&D, the single best role playing game product ever, is quite obviously a garage product. Why should I support the "industry", the FLGS or any of the slick, modern husks of games that go with them? What have they done for me? Maybe if it goes back to the garage (or the internet), the current high-entry cost, glossy, over produced products will go away and we'll be back to cheap, quirky fan efforts that might just charm their way back to popularity. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Death of the LGS
Top