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<blockquote data-quote="Majere" data-source="post: 1854140" data-attributes="member: 13916">Other side of the coinWithout deathward supposedly low CR encounters become instant death jokes.DM: Ok, so in the suprize round 8 shadows come out of the floor and take one attack, against your ac of 14.DM: ok only 4 hits so that is 4d6 str loss for.. 14 points.Player: I only have 12 strDM: Ok in the suprize round you die permanantly, and will rise as a shadow in d4 roundsPlayer: !!???!DM: But your level 20, this is only an EL9. SorryReallyStat point loss is SOOOOOOOOOO much more lethal than anything else in the game. More than HP loss, more than level drain, more than save or die (if you work at your saves). 8 Shadows (EL 9) will kill almost any mage (or cleric if you ar not combat orientated) in the suprize round (incorporeal, can come out the walls). Other low level undead are the same.8 Alips (EL9) will instantly kills most fighters or mages. 8 wraiths (EL11) will kills almost anyone.All of the above are incorporeal and intellegant enough that they can get the suprize round and work together to target one party member.I house ruled death ward up to 10 minutes per level, because I (as a high level player) would simply refuse to party outside of the 15 minutes a day you can keep deathward up.Really, this spell is underpowered, not over powered. Players have to learn the spell, know when to cast it, and then it gives protection for a short time. And without it, low EL combat can turn into TPKs.Majere</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Majere, post: 1854140, member: 13916"] Other side of the coin Without deathward supposedly low CR encounters become instant death jokes. DM: Ok, so in the suprize round 8 shadows come out of the floor and take one attack, against your ac of 14. DM: ok only 4 hits so that is 4d6 str loss for.. 14 points. Player: I only have 12 str DM: Ok in the suprize round you die permanantly, and will rise as a shadow in d4 rounds Player: !!???! DM: But your level 20, this is only an EL9. Sorry Really Stat point loss is SOOOOOOOOOO much more lethal than anything else in the game. More than HP loss, more than level drain, more than save or die (if you work at your saves). 8 Shadows (EL 9) will kill almost any mage (or cleric if you ar not combat orientated) in the suprize round (incorporeal, can come out the walls). Other low level undead are the same. 8 Alips (EL9) will instantly kills most fighters or mages. 8 wraiths (EL11) will kills almost anyone. All of the above are incorporeal and intellegant enough that they can get the suprize round and work together to target one party member. I house ruled death ward up to 10 minutes per level, because I (as a high level player) would simply refuse to party outside of the 15 minutes a day you can keep deathward up. Really, this spell is underpowered, not over powered. Players have to learn the spell, know when to cast it, and then it gives protection for a short time. And without it, low EL combat can turn into TPKs. Majere [/QUOTE]

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