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<blockquote data-quote="Jack Simth" data-source="post: 2985103" data-attributes="member: 29252">Magic doesn't need to break Conservation; it just seems to.&nbsp; That energy can be coming from somewhere - an AMF denies the flow to most such magic from wherever it originates.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Besides, you can't have a universe without breaking either conservation of energy or entropy utterly anyway.1) Conseraction of energy -&gt; The energy present at time T had to be present at time T-1.&nbsp; T is an arbitrary point in time, 1 is an arbitrary unit of time.&nbsp; You can replace T with T-1 at whim, and thus demonstrate that the energy of the universe must be an infinity old under conservation of energy.2) Entropy -&gt; The total energy at time T is &quot;less orderly&quot; than the total energy at T-1.&nbsp; Again, T is an arbitrary point in time, 1 is an arbitrary unit of time.&nbsp; You can replace T with T-1 at whim, and thus demonstrate that the energy of the universe must be less orderly now than at any previous point in time.&nbsp; Combining the two, you have a problem - after an infinite period of time, with order constantly decreasing, there should be negligible order left to the energy...... yet the universe exists, and has a non-negligible amount of order to it's energy.....Breaking either 1 or 2 permits a universe to exist (there are a couple of other work-arounds) but you pretty much have to break the laws of physics as they're known to have a universe anyway, so......</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Jack Simth, post: 2985103, member: 29252"] Magic doesn't need to break Conservation; it just seems to. That energy can be coming from somewhere - an AMF denies the flow to most such magic from wherever it originates. Besides, you can't have a universe without breaking either conservation of energy or entropy utterly anyway. 1) Conseraction of energy -> The energy present at time T had to be present at time T-1. T is an arbitrary point in time, 1 is an arbitrary unit of time. You can replace T with T-1 at whim, and thus demonstrate that the energy of the universe must be an infinity old under conservation of energy. 2) Entropy -> The total energy at time T is "less orderly" than the total energy at T-1. Again, T is an arbitrary point in time, 1 is an arbitrary unit of time. You can replace T with T-1 at whim, and thus demonstrate that the energy of the universe must be less orderly now than at any previous point in time. Combining the two, you have a problem - after an infinite period of time, with order constantly decreasing, there should be negligible order left to the energy...... yet the universe exists, and has a non-negligible amount of order to it's energy..... Breaking either 1 or 2 permits a universe to exist (there are a couple of other work-arounds) but you pretty much have to break the laws of physics as they're known to have a universe anyway, so...... [/QUOTE]

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