Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Deciding Between PFTPG and D&D4e/E. Also, Four Simple Questions (D&D 4e repost)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 5332625" data-attributes="member: 7635"><p>Ok, quick note; I'm a Pathfinder DM with a heavy dose of interest in D&De.</p><p></p><p>1.) Pathfinder's method of fixing character imbalance was to take classes that (on a scale of 1-10, 10 being most powerful) ranked between 4 and 9 and ratchet them ALL up to 10. This means some classes (sorcerer, bard, ranger, monk) got heavy handfuls of new abilities, while classes already near apex (druid, wizard, cleric) got a few new class-toys and LOTS of nerfed spells. The net effect I've noticed is that PF PCs are more durable than their 3.5 counterparts, but not necessarily more devastating. This injects longevity to the "15 min workday" but doesn't really address some of the other issues. However, some of the new class features for marital classes due begin to close the gap with casters. (see below).</p><p></p><p>2.) 4e began using some common MMO-RPG terminology to describe itself, leading to some comparisons between it and WoW. For example; fighters were assumed to "tank" (soak hits) and control "aggro" (mark foes so they want to attack him and not squishy mages). Rogues became strikers, expanding their role as skirimsher/backstabber to full-on max-damage dealer. Mages, by contrast, became less about high damage or utility magic and more about "control" (slowing foes, reducing their attacks, hitting multiple foes at once). Additionally, the whole "powers" system (esp the encounter/daily system) felt to many like the different cooldowns for WoW powers (so as not to spam your best attacks). </p><p></p><p>Interestingly, Essentials pulls away from this a lot; the slayer is a fighter obsessed with damage not marking for example. All martial classes are built around modifying base attacks, meaning no daily "cooldown" for martial classes. </p><p></p><p>3.) Call this one a wash. 3.5 and 4e both assume battle grids and some token representation of your PCs/foes. Things like spell area, threatening area/reach, movement powers, and attacks of opportunity depend on careful square counting. It is possible to play both without said items, but it will require a lot of DM ad-hoc rulings on distance and scale.</p><p></p><p>4.) You can, but its not needed. The gap between marital and magical is smaller in PF, thanks to martial classes getting more abilities that can mimic spells. Rogues and fighters can get feats that add condition riders (blinded, stunned, or fatigued for example). Monks get a LOT more added power, and barbarians get some ability to shrug off hits, even heal themselves with rage! Casters got some hits too; save or die has become save-or-take-a-boatload-of-damage, polymorph was reigned in to several specific spells, and concentration/casting in melee got a LOT harder! The biggest offender in inequality (magic items) remains the same, but nothing short of a re-write was going to fix that.</p><p></p><p>Still, good luck playing EITHER game with 2 PCs, at high levels (where casters shine) remembering what every feat, spell, power, and magic item 2 PCs have will be a logistical nightmare; good luck with those temporary buffs!</p><p></p><p>5.) PF has less errata because MOST of it was hashed out over 8+ years of 3.5's lifespan! Still, the small amount in the PHB is barely noticeable (the biggest being a forgotten option for the bard and the summoning table being messed up a bit) and MOST of the monsters in the Bestiary run fine as is ( a few messed up saves or Hp for example).</p><p>By Comparison, D&D Essentials has the same bennie: its had 2 years of 4e's run to hammer out errata. It fixes a lot of small problems with 4e and the math involved in it.</p><p></p><p>Both PF and 4e have online updates, including revised versions posted online (PF's at the PRD, 4es via the Compendium). PF's is free, 4es is part of a DDi sub. 4e has the character and monster builder online tools, something PF definitely lacks. </p><p></p><p>Hope that helps.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Remathilis, post: 5332625, member: 7635"] Ok, quick note; I'm a Pathfinder DM with a heavy dose of interest in D&De. 1.) Pathfinder's method of fixing character imbalance was to take classes that (on a scale of 1-10, 10 being most powerful) ranked between 4 and 9 and ratchet them ALL up to 10. This means some classes (sorcerer, bard, ranger, monk) got heavy handfuls of new abilities, while classes already near apex (druid, wizard, cleric) got a few new class-toys and LOTS of nerfed spells. The net effect I've noticed is that PF PCs are more durable than their 3.5 counterparts, but not necessarily more devastating. This injects longevity to the "15 min workday" but doesn't really address some of the other issues. However, some of the new class features for marital classes due begin to close the gap with casters. (see below). 2.) 4e began using some common MMO-RPG terminology to describe itself, leading to some comparisons between it and WoW. For example; fighters were assumed to "tank" (soak hits) and control "aggro" (mark foes so they want to attack him and not squishy mages). Rogues became strikers, expanding their role as skirimsher/backstabber to full-on max-damage dealer. Mages, by contrast, became less about high damage or utility magic and more about "control" (slowing foes, reducing their attacks, hitting multiple foes at once). Additionally, the whole "powers" system (esp the encounter/daily system) felt to many like the different cooldowns for WoW powers (so as not to spam your best attacks). Interestingly, Essentials pulls away from this a lot; the slayer is a fighter obsessed with damage not marking for example. All martial classes are built around modifying base attacks, meaning no daily "cooldown" for martial classes. 3.) Call this one a wash. 3.5 and 4e both assume battle grids and some token representation of your PCs/foes. Things like spell area, threatening area/reach, movement powers, and attacks of opportunity depend on careful square counting. It is possible to play both without said items, but it will require a lot of DM ad-hoc rulings on distance and scale. 4.) You can, but its not needed. The gap between marital and magical is smaller in PF, thanks to martial classes getting more abilities that can mimic spells. Rogues and fighters can get feats that add condition riders (blinded, stunned, or fatigued for example). Monks get a LOT more added power, and barbarians get some ability to shrug off hits, even heal themselves with rage! Casters got some hits too; save or die has become save-or-take-a-boatload-of-damage, polymorph was reigned in to several specific spells, and concentration/casting in melee got a LOT harder! The biggest offender in inequality (magic items) remains the same, but nothing short of a re-write was going to fix that. Still, good luck playing EITHER game with 2 PCs, at high levels (where casters shine) remembering what every feat, spell, power, and magic item 2 PCs have will be a logistical nightmare; good luck with those temporary buffs! 5.) PF has less errata because MOST of it was hashed out over 8+ years of 3.5's lifespan! Still, the small amount in the PHB is barely noticeable (the biggest being a forgotten option for the bard and the summoning table being messed up a bit) and MOST of the monsters in the Bestiary run fine as is ( a few messed up saves or Hp for example). By Comparison, D&D Essentials has the same bennie: its had 2 years of 4e's run to hammer out errata. It fixes a lot of small problems with 4e and the math involved in it. Both PF and 4e have online updates, including revised versions posted online (PF's at the PRD, 4es via the Compendium). PF's is free, 4es is part of a DDi sub. 4e has the character and monster builder online tools, something PF definitely lacks. Hope that helps. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Deciding Between PFTPG and D&D4e/E. Also, Four Simple Questions (D&D 4e repost)
Top