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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 8603825" data-attributes="member: 23751">So first, telling me that it has nothing to do with, &quot;...the DM determines if success is automatic, failure is automatic, or the outcome is in doubt. Only if it is in doubt and with meaningful consequence for failure do you roll.&quot; and then giving examples of the bolded portion is contradicting yourself inside of the same paragraph.&nbsp; Second, your second example with the dagger is absolutely, 100% about player agency.&nbsp; If you don't have a valid in fiction reason for overriding the player's declaration, you are removing his agency and playing his PC.&nbsp; A toddler would be quick enough to beat Usain Bolt if Bolt was standing still when the toddler drew back to throw.&nbsp; And the second portion of your response, &quot;...,while you are still trying to decide how to throw and minding the rest of the situation and the surroundings, you have telegraphed your move and that guy over there pounces on you and kills you.&quot; is playing the PC.&nbsp; The player decides what his PC is focused on.&nbsp; Not you.&nbsp; And there is no &quot;how to throw.&quot;&nbsp; He's going to throw it the way he has always thrown his knife.If you're going to play the PC like that and then just announce the PC is dead, you're abusing your authority as DM.Yes, but unless there's a valid reason for overriding the PC and/or playing the character like you did in your second example, you're abusing your authority.&nbsp; Let's say the PC has come to a canyon the size of the grand canyon and the player has announced that his 3 int, 3 wisdom barbarian is going to jump over with a running long jump.&nbsp; He has no magic or supernatural abilities that would apply.DM: &quot;You begin running as quickly as you can and at the edge you take a grand leap out over the canyon.&nbsp; You go about 25 feet(20 for strength and 5 feet for a nice athletics check to go unusually far) and then plummet 1500 feet to the bottom of the canyon.&nbsp; Ouch!&nbsp; You take 77 points of damage.&quot; - this is a valid auto failure narration.&nbsp; It's impossible to jump across the grand canyon on foot.DM: &quot;You begin running a quickly as you can, but just before you get to the edge you realize that you can't do it and stop.&quot; - this is not a valid auto failure narration.&nbsp; You have no right to play the PC.DM: &quot;You begin running as quickly as you can, but before you get to the edge the NPC wizard casts Dominate on you and forces you to stop, since you failed your save.&quot; - This is a valid way to play the PC with a failure to jump, since there is a valid in game reason for it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 8603825, member: 23751"] So first, telling me that it has nothing to do with, "...the DM determines if success is automatic, [B]failure is automatic[/B], or the outcome is in doubt. Only if it is in doubt and with meaningful consequence for failure do you roll." and then giving examples of the bolded portion is contradicting yourself inside of the same paragraph. Second, your second example with the dagger is absolutely, 100% about player agency. If you don't have a valid in fiction reason for overriding the player's declaration, you are removing his agency and playing his PC. A toddler would be quick enough to beat Usain Bolt if Bolt was standing still when the toddler drew back to throw. And the second portion of your response, "...,while you are still trying to decide how to throw and minding the rest of the situation and the surroundings, you have telegraphed your move and that guy over there pounces on you and kills you." is playing the PC. The player decides what his PC is focused on. Not you. And there is no "how to throw." He's going to throw it the way he has always thrown his knife. If you're going to play the PC like that and then just announce the PC is dead, you're abusing your authority as DM. Yes, but unless there's a valid reason for overriding the PC and/or playing the character like you did in your second example, you're abusing your authority. Let's say the PC has come to a canyon the size of the grand canyon and the player has announced that his 3 int, 3 wisdom barbarian is going to jump over with a running long jump. He has no magic or supernatural abilities that would apply. DM: "You begin running as quickly as you can and at the edge you take a grand leap out over the canyon. You go about 25 feet(20 for strength and 5 feet for a nice athletics check to go unusually far) and then plummet 1500 feet to the bottom of the canyon. Ouch! You take 77 points of damage." - this is a valid auto failure narration. It's impossible to jump across the grand canyon on foot. DM: "You begin running a quickly as you can, but just before you get to the edge you realize that you can't do it and stop." - this is not a valid auto failure narration. You have no right to play the PC. DM: "You begin running as quickly as you can, but before you get to the edge the NPC wizard casts Dominate on you and forces you to stop, since you failed your save." - This is a valid way to play the PC with a failure to jump, since there is a valid in game reason for it. [/QUOTE]

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