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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lyxen" data-source="post: 8604858" data-attributes="member: 7032025">From what I've seen, it all hinges about the edge cases when combattants are aware of each other and in plain sight (so the surprise rule does not really apply) but where a player thinks he can be clever and get some edge by starting the fight himself.For reasons of "realism" or "player empowerment", some of us think that this edge should be recognized one way or another, and people have proposed a number of interpretations or house rules to cover that.In particular, your proposal of using "deception" checks is an interesting one, that I certainly support for some cases, but according to the RAW is does not give you surprise. It's a good idea to play it that way and I've hinted at it previously, I think it's one of the possible tools for the more complex edge cases.</blockquote>